State Rock Song

[joiei]

From what I heard, only about 20,000 people votes were counted.  I find it hard to believe that only 20,000 people out of 3.6 million in this state cared enough to vote for the official state rock song.  I never heard about it until the Hammer Sickle shirt guy incident.  Probably was only advertised on alt-rock music sites. 

This topic was discussed at length at the beginning of this thread, just read back some.  It was also talked about in the Tulsa World, in UTW, on KOTV and i don't know where else.  That was just the places i ran across the topic. 

I would guess that if 20,000 people voted they had a good turnout, just think about other elections that happen in the state.   If a certain group was able to run the numbers for their candidate it is because other music fans not caring much about voting.   I did vote, not for this tune, but I did bother to vote.   What is that old line,  you snooze - you lose. 

[rwarn17588]

I just got this email from a musician I respect a ton.  I could care less about their lifestyle, I'm simply trying to figure out the significance of the band and the song chosen and I don't see it in light of better choices.  I'd also forgotten about Wanda Jackson as another significant Okla talent.  I can't think of an "Oklahoma" song by David Gates, but there's another great example of Oklahoma talent.  If you look at overall contribution to the music industry, Leon Russell arguably has been one of the more influential people in all of Rock-N-Roll: producer, writer, performer, session musician.  Slight exaggeration, but the list of his peers who he's played with is probably longer than the list of those he's not.  "Home Sweet Oklahoma" would have been a great choice.

"Governor, the house is right and they don't know the half of it.
    I was afraid of this. I editorialized about it last year. I noted that teenybooppers had already nominated completely inappropriate material from their flavor-of-the-month bands. I even sent my article to The Oklahoma Historical Society. (add link to previous piece)
   snip

"This musician" also put out a tirade that was either factually wrong (the drummer didn't have his hand amputated; he's clean of drugs and still drumming), or dubious or inconsistent in his beefs with the lips.

I didn't have a dog in this fight. I heard the nominees, and found them worthy, the Lips included. I'm not a huge fan of the Flaming Lips, but have followed them with increasing fascination over the past 15 years or so. I should add that I thought the Lips were horrible early in their careers, but the band experienced a fairly amazing spurt of artistic growth.

I've read beefs about tech-savvy youngsters stuffing the ballot box for the Flaming Lips. Well, duh. Rock 'n' roll always has been the bastion of the young, and so it stands to reason that young music fans are going to skew an online poll.

But if you look at the facts closely, it probably shouldn't be a surprise that the Flaming Lips came out on top. The Flaming Lips had two albums, "The Soft Bulletin" and "Yoshimi," that were among the most critically praised of the past decade. The Lips' concerts, by all accounts, are highly imaginative and sell out everywhere across the globe. The Flaming Lips' last album peaked at No. 11 on the Billboard charts overall.

So you have a band that's been critically lauded for the last decade, sells scads of concert tickets, and its last album went gold or platinum.

Considering that Leon Russell is decades past his prime, Hanson's last hit was about 10 years ago and all the other nominees (save for the All-American Rejects) came from the baby-boom age or further back, it shouldn't be surprising that a band that's relevant to many, many music fans now would win an online contest.

If you're going to punish the Lips for not "representing Oklahoma values" (whatever those are), you'd better yank Bob Wills from having the state's official country and western song because he was a notorious drunkard and womanizer. And you'd better pull Woody Guthrie's portrait from the state Capitol building because he was an honest-to-God communist, not just a fellow who wore a hammer-and-sickle gimme shirt for one day.

In the end, it's all about the music. Ted Nugent and Rage Against the Machine couldn't be more opposite on the political spectrum. But both are very, very good at being rock musicians, and I enjoy both artists' music greatly.

Same goes for the Lips.

[Cats Cats Cats]

The Hammer and Sickle isn't a national symbol of Russia. It's the international symbol of the Communist ideology, and when countries threw off the Communist yoke in the 1980s and 1990s, they removed the Hammer and Sickle from their flags. When the Romanians ousted Communist regime in late '89 and executed Nicolae Ceaucescu, they cut the Communist coat of arms (adorned with the Hammer and Sickle) out of their red, yellow, and blue tricolor flags, leaving a big hole in the center. (Correction: The coat of arms did not have the Hammer and Sickle, but did have a large red star, another symbol of Communism. In any case, those rebelling against the Communist government felt strongly enough about eliminating the Communist symbol from their national flag that they took scissors to the flag.)

The Hammer & Sickle is to Communism as the Swastika is to Nazism.

Everyone knows about Nazi atrocities, and rightly so. Had Ivins been wearing a foot-wide swastika on his chest, everyone, left, right, and center, would be calling for his head. Hawkins is right on point -- the most disturbing thing about this situation is how ignorant people are of the atrocities that have been committed and are still being committed by Communist governments around the world.

I do see your point. A swastika would bring a lot of outrage.  I don't think even those in the former USSR states even know all of the atrocities committed.  I do know that a lot of that information isn't taught in schools more than likely (In the US).  Which also brings up the point that those going through school in the near future will not have grown up in a time with the tension of U.S. USSR relations and the constant fear of nuclear war with them.  (Although we are moving that way again with Russia).  Now in the classroom the emphasis is going to be that they were are allies in WWII.

[kylieosu]

If you're going to punish the Lips for not "representing Oklahoma values" (whatever those are), you'd better yank Bob Wills from having the state's official country and western song because he was a notorious drunkard and womanizer. And you'd better pull Woody Guthrie's portrait from the state Capitol building because he was an honest-to-God communist, not just a fellow who wore a hammer-and-sickle gimme shirt for one day.

Great point.

[cannon_fodder]

1) A rock star embracing communism is the height of irony.  Selling records, performing at shows, making a living off of art was not high on the list of the communist aspirations.  Let alone being an individual.  By wearing the shirt and attempting to draw attention to himself he is, unwittingly I assume, mocking the intent of the hammer and sickle - which were to glorify the common-man ideal of the communist state.

2) The State of Oklahoma voted a very unique rock band as the State song.  They are known for doing things to get attention, for being different, it's kind of par for the course for a rock band.  Then they do something to get attention and to be different . . . acting like a rock band, and they are shocked!

It'd be like inviting a politician to speak and then discovering that he lied, fibbed, or left out some of the truth.

[sgrizzle]

What's funny is Bates quotes Wikipedia saying the Hammer and Sickle are symbols of communism but also on Wikipedia it says that the soviet flag is depicted as a Red Flag with a Yellow star and Hammer and Sickle. The star represent communism and the hammer and sickle represents the workers and farmers. The Chinese flag also used the Yellow Star on a red flag to symbolize the communist leadership.

So if the shirt had a more direct communist image like a yellow star on a red flag, would the house have voted the same way?

What I see is someone wearing a shirt that is copied from the flag of a defunct communist nation with the star (the symbol of communist leadership) removed. Oakley (the Sunglasses people) had a whole line of clothing feature soviet-styling and the soviet star for quite a while with no major protest. I have looked at the image several times and never felt any sort of desire to become a communist, all I felt was 80's Nostalgia and the desire to buy one of those shirts.

[Chicken Little]

Pretty funny, Tulsa World:

[joiei]

All of this brouhaha about a t-shirt is, to borrow a phrase, much ado about nothing.   So the guy wore a t-shirt.  I am not offended by this choice of clothing, he is a musician.  Most musicians i know do not run around in pinstriped suits.   Having the symbol of a defunct country on their t-shirt does not make them followers or practitioners of that particular political ideology.  I see people driving around with the union jack painted on the top of their Mini Coopers, does than make them USA haters wanting us to revert back to serving the Queen?  I don't think so. 

There is too much divisiveness in the United States today.  We all need to just take  a deep breath and relax. 

[sgrizzle]

All of this brouhaha about a t-shirt is, to borrow a phrase, much ado about nothing.   So the guy wore a t-shirt.  I am not offended by this choice of clothing, he is a musician.  Most musicians i know do not run around in pinstriped suits.   Having the symbol of a defunct country on their t-shirt does not make them followers or practitioners of that particular political ideology.  I see people driving around with the union jack painted on the top of their Mini Coopers, does than make them USA haters wanting us to revert back to serving the Queen?  I don't think so. 

There is too much divisiveness in the United States today.  We all need to just take  a deep breath and relax. 

+1 Karma for Joiei

[TheArtist]

Remembered seeing this thread, but hadn't read it before until I saw this on the front page of the BBC News...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8022652.stm

[cannon_fodder]

Coyne told Billboard magazine that the Oklahoma City band had never thought they were "battling against what we feel is like a backwards mentality here".

"It's really just a couple of these small-minded guys who are the most popular guys in their church and

This could get fun.

[tulsascoot]

This is ridiculous. They won the vote as it was set up, and then the conservative idiots in the legislature decided they didn't like the outcome.

It's even made it to the front page of bbc.com.

For once, I'd like the big news out of Oklahoma not be embarrassing. But I am surrounded by bible thumping idiots who would rather spend time making a big deal out of some meaningless state song than figuring out make sure its citizens don't die because health care and insurance is exhorbitantly expensive and grossly ineffective for the bulk of the population.

How about we figure out how to care for our population instead of wasting time on this morally superior legislating b.s.

[Angus]

Tulsatoday has convincing arguments against this selection. Oklahoma has had so much influence on Rock and Roll from the very beginning. Most of us have never heard of these profane atheists who thumb their noses at everything. They won with one third of one percent of the potential vote. Hundreds of songs were nominated, then cut down to 10. Hanson did not make the final ten, even though they much better represent most of us and still chart higher than Lips. Home Sweet Oklahoma should have won.

[custosnox]

Tulsatoday has convinving arguments against this selection. Oklahoma had had so much influence on Rock and Roll from the very beginning. Most of us have never heard of these profane atheists who thumb their nose at everything. They won with one third of one percent of the potential vote. Hundreds of songs were nominated, then cut down to 10. Hanson did not make the final ten, even though they much better represent most of us and still chart higher than Lips. Home Sweet Oklahoma should have won.

Doesn't float.  one third of one percent of the potential vote was still more then any other song that was voted on.  Even though there are many other songs that would represent Oklahoma better, they were not marketed, so did not get the votes.  That's how it works, sorry.

[custosnox]

P.S. just to clarify, I don't like the selection, but I didn't vote (didn't know anything about it) so I can't gripe.