Obama now believes the surge worked.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

[MH2010]

Let's recap.... you wrongly assumed that FB stated that "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups."

I then pointed out how McCain's experience was different than your "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".

You then stated that I did not know "just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?"

I then listed two people (Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi) who I know are either sitting under a bridge somewhere or are in rehab.  Neither of these people have any of the qualifications to be VP and then challenged you to find just one person under a bridge or in rehab that had graduated from the United States Navel Academy.  

You then instead retreated in your arguement to
wondering about nuance and sarcasm.  Then you declined my challege to find anyone that graduated from the United States Naval Academy in "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".

I'll tell you what, why don't you take your generalizations, your sarcasm and your nuance, put them in your pocket and go paddle around in your little boat on the Arkansas river.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.

23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!

Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!

No wonder he crashed into Hanoi.  Ran out of gas half-way there and back....

Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:

BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy.  He was extremely rebellious in response.  

His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.

His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing.  Not just his grades.

For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.  

Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus

So the U.S. can, like:  WIN WARS.

WIN WARS.

WIN.

Not, LOSE WARS.

That sort of matters.  Character matters in Military Leadership.

ALWAYS.

Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.  

Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.

Or, the winningest smile.

Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.

Pres. Clinton was competent.  But character?  No doubts there.

Character matters.

McCain has it now.  And, had it when it mattered.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.

23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!

Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!

No wonder he crashed into Hanoi.  Ran out of gas half-way there and back....

Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:

BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy.  He was extremely rebellious in response.  

His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.

His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing.  Not just his grades.

For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.  

So the U.S. can, like:  WIN WARS.

WIN WARS.

WIN.

Not, LOSE WARS.

That sort of matters.  Character matters. ALWAYS.

Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Economics.  Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.  Or, the most charming smile.

Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience.

Pres. Clinton was competent. But character?  No doubts there.

Character matters.  Always.

McCain had character when it mattered.

[FOTD]

Win Wars even when the Generals and advisors tell you the situation is unwinable.

FB, you need to team up with Dumbya on 1-21-09 and go on tour as Grin and Bear It.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.

23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!

Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!

No wonder he crashed into Hanoi.  Ran out of gas half-way there and back....

Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:

BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy.  He was extremely rebellious in response.  

His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.

His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing.  Not just his grades.

For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.  

Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus

So the U.S. can, like:  WIN WARS.

WIN WARS.

WIN.

Not, LOSE WARS.

That sort of matters.  Character matters in Military Leadership.

ALWAYS.

Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.  

Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.

Or, the winningest smile.

Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.

Pres. Clinton was competent.  But character?  No doubts there.

Character matters.

McCain has it now.  And, had it when it mattered.

Oh, you mean character like little Bush transferring from the Texas National Air guard to the Alabama National Air Guard to work a political campaign and never showing up for duty?

Or character like cheating on and then leaving your disfigured wife who stood by you while you were a POW for a much younger hotter and richer woman whose daddy was going to get you into congress?  McCain, divorced in April and married in May. No less than Nancy Reagan absolutely hates McCain because of that little sordid tale, as did her husband, and who was he again?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Win Wars even when the Generals and advisors tell you the situation is unwinable.

FB, you need to team up with Dumbya on 1-21-09 and go on tour as Grin and Bear It.

Where did I say I approved of the conduct of the Iraq War?

I don't think that either McCain or Obama approve of the conduct of the War.

In our somewhat functioning Democracy, the General and Admirals still report to the National Command Authority:

The Civilians.

The Civilians (the ELECTED President and his advisors) make the final decisions.  

You know, timing is sometimes everything.  

If Sen. John Kerry's or Barack Obama presidential election campaign had been in a 2006 Presidential Election, GWBush would have LOST the election due to the unpopularity of the War.

But, it wasn't.  It's now.

McCain is not Bush.

He was not part of the Bush Administration.

Remember, he and the Shrub were Rivals.  

But you know, honorable men after an election defeat congratulate the Winner, and let the political divisions heal and move on.

Kerry did it in 2004.  Gore eventually, belatedly did it in 2000.  As, did John McCain in 2000 GOP Primary.

Will Obama be able to heal the political rifts that are necessary for a nation if he loses?

Based on the unbalanced histrionics of his supporters in this Forum, I suspect that if he really has one iota in common with the content of their character that he lacks the necessary CHARACTER to do what is necessary to heal those divisions after political defeat.

Seriously, those in the know, expect instead a political Pity Party November 5, followed by riots in most major cities.

This is no joke.

Just wait and see.......

[!]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I doubt you guys are any less partisan than I am. I doubt you know just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?

I have decided to attack insanity that passes for contemplative thoughtful posts with truth that is perceived by residents of dumbf**kistan as insanity.

Military service and POW status is all you got. Lots of people have that status.

I know Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi are two people that are sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that don't have McCain's qualifications.

Can you name two people sitting under a bridge somewhere or in rehab that just graduated from the United States Navel Academy? After you find that one qualification, we can work on the other ones.

I don't know Wilson or Sharifi so the significance of them or their possible qualifications eludes me.

Why do you republicans have such problems with nuance and sarcasm? You and your guy FB keep pounding on POW and service experience as THE qualifying characteristics that makes McCain a good choice. Its a belief worthy of questioning and since few around here answer questions, humor and sarcasm are alternate avenues.

I don't intend to go interview homeless to find one that "just graduated" from the Naval Academy. McCain didn't just graduate either. But from talking with quite a few of the Nam era homeless on the street and reading about the percentages of Gulf War veterans with mental and addiction problems it wouldn't be too hard to find one with great qualifications on paper. Obviously their addiction and mental problems negate that. Just like McCain's flip flopping and poor judgement ought to negate his candidacy.

Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy.

23 Missions over North Vietnam in only 20 HOURS!

Must have been on Afterburner the entire time!

No wonder he crashed into Hanoi.  Ran out of gas half-way there and back....

Regarding his standing at the U.S. Naval Academy:

BECAUSE his Father and Grandfather were Admirals, McCain was frequently bullied and demeaned by jealous upper classmen at the Academy.  He was extremely rebellious in response.  

His final class standing was not solely due to academics, although some might be pushing their agenda to promote the idea that he is a dim bulb.

His DEMERITS were factored into his final class standing.  Not just his grades.

For any draft dodgers, 4-F Failures or Deserters who may not know, a U.S. Military Academy develops future MILITARY LEADERS.  

Eisenhower.
Patton.
Halsey.
Nimitz.
Schartzkopf.
Petraeus

So the U.S. can, like:  WIN WARS.

WIN WARS.

WIN.

Not, LOSE WARS.

That sort of matters.  Character matters in Military Leadership.

ALWAYS.

Not just who got the highest grade on Civics or Home Economics.  

Or, who has the best Teleprompter skills.

Or, the winningest smile.

Character is as equally important as competence, education, or experience in Leadership.

Pres. Clinton was competent.  But character?  No doubts there.

Character matters.

McCain has it now.  And, had it when it mattered.

Oh, you mean character like little Bush transferring from the Texas National Air guard to the Alabama National Air Guard to work a political campaign and never showing up for duty?

Or character like cheating on and then leaving your disfigured wife who stood by you while you were a POW for a much younger hotter and richer woman whose daddy was going to get you into congress?  McCain, divorced in April and married in May. No less than Nancy Reagan absolutely hates McCain because of that little sordid tale, as did her husband, and who was he again?

I'm sorry to say, that I don't think you're going to get another chance to vote against GWBush for President.

The Democrats are pushing that line in this election.

McCain isn't Bush.

We'll see if it sells Nov. 4..........

[MH2010]

"Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy."

You're not even close. I suggest you should read some more.

Not everyone gets into the United States Naval Academy. Even if you do get in, you do have to do the work to graduate.  It is also well known that McCain, was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates, and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.He also became a lightweight boxer.While there,  McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel because he did not always obey the rules. This rule breaking contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899). He did well in subjects that interested him but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with. Regardless, McCain graduated in 1958.

After graduating, McCain requested a combat assignment,and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks. He was flying a-4 Skyhawks. Before he was shot down, he was almost killed by a fire aboard the Forrestal. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded. McCain was struck in his legs and chest by fragments. That fire killed ended up killing 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. McCain then volunteered to go to the USS Oriskany.  It was from there that McCain was later shotdown on his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam.  

I've already discussed his POW experience and briefly mentioned his years in the House and Senate

I'm sure you will try and short change that experience too.  Maybe if McCain could have fit in being a "community organizer" in between his military, POW and House/Senate jobs you would cut him some slack.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010


Let's recap.... you wrongly assumed that FB stated that "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities all have the stuff to be president. At least VP. Lotta' vets in those groups."

NO. I responded to his constant rants that McCain is a war hero POW and that somehow makes him qualified. Anything you write after this misunderstanding is suspect.


I then pointed out how McCain's experience was different than your "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".

You then stated that I did not know "just who is sitting under those bridges and in rehab centers. Do you know that there aren't any bottom rung Naval Academy grads in those centers?"

I then listed two people (Jeff Wilson and Ali Sharifi) who I know are either sitting under a bridge somewhere or are in rehab.  Neither of these people have any of the qualifications to be VP and then challenged you to find just one person under a bridge or in rehab that had graduated from the United States Navel Academy.  

Yes, you did and it was irrelevant.

You then instead retreated in your arguement to
wondering about nuance and sarcasm.  Then you declined my challege to find anyone that graduated from the United States Naval Academy in "county jail prisoners, people living under bridges and in mental health facilities".

I retreated nowhere. It still mystifies me. You can't even get this thread straight much less understand nuance and sarcasm.

I'll tell you what, why don't you take your generalizations, your sarcasm and your nuance, put them in your pocket and go paddle around in your little boat on the Arkansas river.

Ok.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010


"Not only did McCain finish at the bottom of his class at the Academy he was also an incompetent pilot. He crashed three planes BEFORE he was shot down and captured. The first two were pilot error and the third is questionable. It's very likely that had his father not been an Admiral he would have lost his wings for incompetence and had his military career ended years before he ever became he had a chance to become a POW.

But, for that matter had his father not been an admiral he would have never gotten into the academy in the first place. Spots are reserved in the academies for the children of high ranking officers and McCain was a famously bad student. McCain did not get in the Naval Academy via the competitive admissions process

How much credit should McCain be given for the Naval Academy when his getting in based on who his father was and he then finished five spots from the very bottom of the class? If his father wasn't an admiral would he even have graduated at all?

His medals are a bit suspect too. He had a total of 20 hours of combat flight time before being captured and received 25 medals. Did dad help out there too?

It seems that McCain's best (only?) quality as a military man was that he was the son of  one of the highest ranking admirals in the Navy."

You're not even close. I suggest you should read some more.

Not everyone gets into the United States Naval Academy. Even if you do get in, you do have to do the work to graduate.  It is also well known that McCain, was a friend and informal leader for many of his classmates, and sometimes stood up for people who were being bullied.He also became a lightweight boxer.While there,  McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel because he did not always obey the rules. This rule breaking contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899). He did well in subjects that interested him but studied only enough to pass subjects he struggled with. Regardless, McCain graduated in 1958.

After graduating, McCain requested a combat assignment,and was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks. He was flying a-4 Skyhawks. Before he was shot down, he was almost killed by a fire aboard the Forrestal. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded. McCain was struck in his legs and chest by fragments. That fire killed ended up killing 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control. McCain then volunteered to go to the USS Oriskany.  It was from there that McCain was later shotdown on his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam.  

I've already discussed his POW experience and briefly mentioned his years in the House and Senate

I'm sure you will try and short change that experience too.  Maybe if McCain could have fit in being a "community organizer" in between his military, POW and House/Senate jobs you would cut him some slack.

That's about an honest an accounting of his time at the academy as I've read on here.

Kind of brought to mind:

"What do you call the heart surgeon who got the lowest passing score on his medical boards?"

"Doctor"

McCain could have very easily used his father's position to keep him from a combat position and could have quit after the Forrestal inferno.

He didn't.

I think that and his POW days say a lot about the man's constitution.  

I can't even begin to imagine the pain that man has lived with and probably lives with to this day.  He didn't owe his country a thing when he came back from Asia, yet he's spent his entire life since then in the military, then public service.

I'm simply convinced all the bashing of McCain and Palin is the result of the Democrats not having much faith in Sen. Obama as their candidate, otherwise they'd be pointing out his policies and strengths instead of running down the opponent with hit after hit.

Eh, McCain's a Vietnam vet, he's used to being shat upon by the lefties.

[tim huntzinger]

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
- Barack Obama

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."
- Barack Obama

Where do I sign up?