East End

[carltonplace]

Now that the ballpark location is finalized and would appear to be moving forward and the BOK center is open for business, I was wondering what everyone thinks would be a good catalyst to move forward developement in the East End/Village. Hopefully some development will spill over into this area from the Greenwood, Blue Dome and Pearl Districts but probably not enough to create a critical mass.

There have been so many failed plans for the area, including a movie lot, Wal*Mart and GDP. What would you guys like to see?

Side Note: Kudos to Joe and Dillon at PlanB.

[Renaissance]

I think it's prime for residential and services.  Bomasada-type developments would fit perfectly in that area.  Plus, it's a prime spot for a grocery store.  Something like that abandoned Wal-Mart plan wouldn't be the worst use possible of the site, in my mind.

[FOTD]

It's not what you would like to see. It's what master plan fits best for inside the loop. You want residential? You better get schools.

You want offices? You better recruit a big national corporation.

Everyone wants to draw colors all over downtown. That's not realistic.

What should go where Tulsa Regional is?

[sgrizzle]

I don't want big box downtown but I imagine this area being the more "medium box" stores. Movie theater, national brand restaurants, sports bars, and major chain retail intermixed with some local stuff. I would like to see Helmerich & Payne move their HQ here as a cornerstone of the whole thing.

[carltonplace]

Movie theater is a great idea with some sort of retail associated.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I don't want big box downtown but I imagine this area being the more "medium box" stores. Movie theater, national brand restaurants, sports bars, and major chain retail intermixed with some local stuff. I would like to see Helmerich & Payne move their HQ here as a cornerstone of the whole thing.

Good luck with that....H+P just reupped at 15th and Boulder...plus, they'll be smart and sell before the drill drill drill chants go silent.

There's no need for retail in the east end unless you start getting bigger residential demographics. The retail expansion you've witnessed since 1994 is over for quite sometime. The Big Box momentum is dead for now and the foreseeable future.

[Renaissance]

Tulsa is one of the tightest apartment markets in the country.  http://blogs.journalrecord.com/persquarefoot/2008/07/31/tulsas-hot-commercial-markets/  It also has one of the lowest condominium market availabilities.  http://rismedia.com/wp/2008-08-22/condos-keep-selling-despite-soft-market-many-opt-for-condos-due-to-price-and-convenience/.  

As the market meets that demand, I expect more new apartment and condo developments to spring up.  With gas high and urban lving becoming "trendy," national builders are looking to city centers.  If Tulsa wants residential downtown, the time is right to communicate with builders like Bomasada.  TDA and Jones Lang LaSalle should be marketing the city owned land to developers in order to try to catch this momentum.  What's more, the City should use remaining Vision 2025 housing grant money and try a second round to lure folks in and continue to build momentum.  

This worked for OKC in Deep Deuce.  It can work in Tulsa's East End.

[carltonplace]

Hm, actually downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods are growing; more slowly than Bixby and Owasso obviously but there are more people living there then there were even five years ago. It makes sense to make available goods and services to this growing demographic. The great thing about a movie theater is that it has the ability to attract people from a good distance. People who go to a theater might also have a bite before their show or shop or drink after.

For people in North Tulsa, downtown and mid Tulsa the closest first run movie houses are at 41st and Yale.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

Hm, actually downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods are growing; more slowly than Bixby and Owasso obviously but there are more people living there then there were even five years ago. It makes sense to make available goods and services to this growing demographic. The great thing about a movie theater is that it has the ability to attract people from a good distance. People who go to a theater might also have a bite before their show or shop or drink after.

For people in North Tulsa, downtown and mid Tulsa the closest first run movie houses are at 41st and Yale.

They ain't coming into downtown to shop for groceries....and movies are dinoes.

[RecycleMichael]

I want to open a little neighborhood downtown grocery store. I see them in every other downtown I visit.

You know the places. They sell lots of the same stuff as a Quik-Trip but also include postcards and cheap souvenirs.

I told my wife that this was a dream of mine if we win the lottery. She was fine selling postcards, condoms, beer and overpriced deli sandwiches, but she said we couldn't be a store that sells cigarettes. She is anti-smoking.

[carltonplace]

1. How can they go downtown to shop for groceries? No grocery stores exist. How can you go downtown to shop for anything? There are only two or three retail stores inside the IDL.
2. The movie theater experience isn't going anywhere. People went to see movies in theaters at record rates this summer (I concede that this was due to a handful of movies).

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

1. How can they go downtown to shop for groceries? No grocery stores exist. How can you go downtown to shop for anything? There are only two or three retail stores inside the IDL.
2. The movie theater experience isn't going anywhere. People went to see movies in theaters at record rates this summer (I concede that this was due to a handful of movies).

More due to the cost of gasoline. Movies suck. America is boring and lacking in creativity ever since the evolution of the internet.
Low attention spams.


Clear the lands. Wait years for new uses. Bring back Urban Renewal! (TDA).....

[sgrizzle]

What FOTD doesn't tkae into account is that theaters can be run for a fraction of the overhead they once had (see Riverwalk) and yet still charge higher than average rates.

If they had Wi-Fi in the theaters, you could even telecommute.

[perspicuity85]

When we say "East End," are we talking about the same area as the "Pearl District?"  I haven't heard anything mentioned lately about the Pearl District, and I have honestly always been confused as to whether the two names were synonymous.  

I think all of you are dead-on with the grocery store ideas.  I would like to see a development in that area that featured a marketplace-style grocery store, brownstones, loft-style apartments, row houses, and lots of green space (see below).  6th St. should also have bike lanes that connect to Delaware Ave., and thus, TU.  The whole Pearl/East End area is unique in that it is the connecting space between TU and Downtown.  Someone should really take advantage of the TU-Downtown connection.



It would also be nice to see some sort of trendy  book store that could cater to TU and OSU-Tulsa students, as well as nearby residents and business professionals.  I'm thinking something like the Tattered Cover in Denver's Lower Downtown (images below).

[TheArtist]

The main front of the Pearl District actually starts on 6th street outside the IDL on towards TU. The East End is within the IDL, but also encompasses 6th street there as well. So they are connected and it would be logical for them to compliment each other where possible, aka trying to promote a continuous, walkable, pedestrian friendly "front" all along 6th street whether within the IDL or outside it.