A Snapshot of the Effect of Universal Healthcare

[guido911]

Paging Senator Obama:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/09/22/across_mass_wait_to_see_doctors_grows/

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Paging Senator Obama:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/09/22/across_mass_wait_to_see_doctors_grows/

Sheeeesh Guido! Upset over the Feds paying for healthcare for children, but not the stock market bailout.

You will be voting along side the Dumf*ckistanians....Foe sure!

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Paging Senator Obama:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/09/22/across_mass_wait_to_see_doctors_grows/

Sheeeesh Guido! Upset over the Feds paying for healthcare for children, but not the stock market bailout.

.

Got it backwards dudebag.

Jeez, will you just f! off once and for all aox, FOTD, or whatever else you call yourself. You are not remotely funny while doing your damnest to ruin decent dialogue. And stop with that third person reference bullcrap you do. Not only is it NOT clever, you appear retarded.

[iplaw]

His retardation goes far beyond appearances.

[}:)]

[tim huntzinger]

What gets me are all these know-it-alls who post on every friggin post and know everything about every issue for lmonths and months and then suddenly . . . disappear.  Punks.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Paging Senator Obama:

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2008/09/22/across_mass_wait_to_see_doctors_grows/

Sheeeesh Guido! Upset over the Feds paying for healthcare for children, but not the stock market bailout.

.

Got it backwards dudebag.

Jeez, will you just f! off once and for all aox, FOTD, or whatever else you call yourself. You are not remotely funny while doing your damnest to ruin decent dialogue. And stop with that third person reference bullcrap you do. Not only is it NOT clever, you appear retarded.

The devil takes what he's gathered from certain posters and reads between the lines.

What is your intent on this thread? It'd  be strange if Universal Healthcare were to bring the industry to it's knees for lack of doctors and nurses. Not all of them are in the practice for reimbursements and country club dues. What is your point? Do you think whoever is president first has to do something for 40 million+ uninsured or do you prefer to help the hundreds on Wall Street first based on a current White House full of liars and cheats?

Good Gawdy Ms. Lawdy! Where are your priorities? And you refer to the devil as retarded? Satan has a list too.....and Wall Streeters and Bankers are not near the top. They are closer to hell.....

[tim huntzinger]

Well, fart-o-the-dumocrat (just keeding!), you hit on a key issue.  We need more doctors and nurses produced by our education system and not more under-water-basket-weaving graduates.  If it has taken economic meltdown to realize our financial system is bogus, what do any of you think it will take to realize our health care system is heading down the tubes, as well?  Bogus loans for bogus degrees need to be curtailed NOW, and a new direction for our nation's educational system is needed NOW.  Failing that, any promises of 'universal health care' will lead to exactly what the selfish 'conservatives' point to in Canada and Massachusetts.

[we vs us]

It's a good point.  Just because a doctor/patient imbalance exists, doesn't mean it HAS to exist.  I can think of a lot of good ways to ameliorate that . . . and relying on the job market itself to encourage more people to become providers would be my first choice.

A vendor shortage isn't an immutable law, and it doesn't have to be a permanent state of affairs.

[Conan71]

Having someone close in the family who works in HC administration, I wish I had the time and space to explain more about the feeding frenzy and absolute rip-offs perpetrated on the taxpayer via Medicare and Medicaid.  Conversely, the government dictates what procedures and treatment are worth for their beneficiaries.  This is driving some doctors from accepting Medicare.  It also works as a motiviating tool for a shuffle of patients when predetermined stay or treatment limits are reached, even when it is not in the best interest of the patient.

Some of the biggest in-fighting with total disregard for pt. welfare is between acute care, nursing facilities, skilled nursing providers, and hospices.  Right now, hospices are fighting having to repay Medicare for payments over their cap. Here is one article explaining it to a degree: http://newsok.com/article/3148057/?print=1 (It is a long, convoluted road, Google if you want to know more).  That system encourages enrolling marginally-elligible pts to increase their payment cap.

We have got to get away from the mentality that government has the solution for everything.  Everyone seems to want something out of government.  Protect our investments, educate our kids, provide transportation infrastructure, feed the needy, cure all diseases, rebuild disaster-stricken foreign countries, etc.  Every elected official promises and generally delivers on more money for education.  We spend more money on education than any other country and the majority of our public school systems ostensibly still suck.  Not because we don't spend enough on them, it's because of apathetic parents who assume the government will do a good job of raising their kids for them.

I sat at a table the other night at PlaniTulsa with a fellow who pointed out that the average life expectancy in north Tulsa was about 10 years less than that of someone living south of I-244.  The reasoning was that there is no healthcare in north Tulsa.  No hospital, not enough clinics.  I'm not against the idea of better medical representation in Notul.  

Problem though is that people in lower socio-economic classes generally don't pay attention to proper nutrition, physical fitness, nor regular preventative visits to a physician.  It's not a priority to them.  You can spend millions and millions putting up neighborhood clinics in an economically-depressed area and it still won't do anything to improve the overall health of an area if the people won't take care of themselves.

Our government needs to be scaling back spending and programs, not increasing them.  Otherwise, we will be facing nominal taxation of 70% in 20 years, including embedded taxes in everything you buy.

[tim huntzinger]

Sure nuff, the health care crisis and the educational system are intertwined.  We will not solve one without addressing the other.  Simply increasing demand without supply is a recipe for having all of us settle for less.

[we vs us]

Originally posted by Conan71



We have got to get away from the mentality that government has the solution for everything is a failure at everything.  
[/quote]

Fixed that for you.

That assumption, that government is inherently evil, is probably the single most destructive domestic civic development of the last 30 years.  It legitimizes all sorts of waste and corruption and worse, undermines the purpose of American government at all, which is "BY the people and FOR the people." Point is, it exists FOR us, to do all those things we need/want.  Please note that this is not an argument for socialism, communism, naziism or monarchism.  Also, Conan, I'm not specifically targeting you, but I am targeting modern Republicanism, which pays lipservice to reducing and limiting government, but has succeeded only in diminshing safety nets, underfunding reform mandates (No Teacher Left Behind, for instance), and eroding our personal freedoms significantly while spending beyond any measure of restraint.

Short version:  why trust a party that wants to kill government with our government?

[Conan71]

Whatever happened to:

"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country."

JFK was a closet Republican. []

Nowhere do I state or imply that government is inherently evil.  It's a common-sense statement that Americans need to learn to be less dependent on governemnt as a solution to every problem and become more self-reliant and reliant on private enterprise.  There are simply businesses government should not be involved in.

How do you feel about more and more of your income eventually being confiscated by the local, county, state, and federal government to feed an ever-increasing monetary appetite?  Do you ever think of the embedded taxes in everything you purchase?  Higher corporate, parnership, and S-Corp taxes aren't paid by corporations, they are paid by consumers.  

We have to rein in government spending.  Every new or continued government program or entitlement requires either more income or more debt, one or the other.  If it's more debt, eventually that debt has to be retired by raising revenues.  We can't keep printing money we don't have or we will wind up with a currency like the Mexican Peso or Italian Lira was prior to the Euro.

You and I are being sold out at the expense of our tax money to keep corrupt self-serving politicians in Washington.  There are scant few legislators who are truly looking out for the interest of their constituent.  Most are looking to keep the most coveted job in the land.

I really don't give two ****s whether it's a Democrat or GOP failure.  I think it's impossible to make that distinction.  Our government went on a borrowing binge when Reagan was in office, private enterprise and individuals went on a borrowing binge under Clinton's austere budget policies.  Bush II?  Ghack!  We are seeing fall-out from both types of philosophy and methodology.

If the majority of the people want UHC, fine and good but we need a commensurate cut in other government-provided services to compensate for the additional outlay.

The government eventually laying claim to 70% of your income via direct taxes and taxes on the supply chain of consumer goods, plus providing more and more services is a slide into socialism, which has been a proven failure.