Irony, Anyone?

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Honey, I was there when realtors packed buses full of foreign high tech workers with huge amounts of cash and drove them around the Bay Area looking for houses.  That was the beginning of the bubble.

What you don't understand is that everyone, even Tulsa is still eating the profits that were made.

Why do you think housing values have seen signficant increases in Tulsa?  When I bought my home here I set a record for price by square foot in our neighborhood.  That record has since been eclipsed.

Give money to a billionnaire and it buys a $50M painting.  Give money to the middle class and it ripples and bounces around the economy creating jobs.

Luck?  I am a snake, the Chinese say that snakes and dragons are the luckiest signs.  I never discount the value of luck and I have always been very lucky.

But real estate has been a very small part of my life.  I'm a minor celebrity in the art world.  I was what they call a golden boy.

Don't let that get to you.  You're are still young and you have time to turn your life around.  I've always been drawn to beautiful losers.

Do billionaires become billionaires by buying 50 million dollar paintings?  Didn't know it worked that way.  Always wondered how they spent their time.

I don't think I know any billionaires, but I know a bunch of millionaires.  Most of them employ hundreds of people in their various businesses.  

I suppose Billionaires are different. []

[Hometown]

Gosh Gaspar, if only you had landed a little further left in the political spectrum, I could get excited about you.

I imagine there are as many ways to become a billionnaire as there are billionnaires.  One billionnaire family I knew of inherited from a gay uncle.

But I guess I'm still a guilt ridden protestant at heart.  I think $50M paintings are sinful.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Honey, I was there when realtors packed buses full of foreign high tech workers with huge amounts of cash and drove them around the Bay Area looking for houses.  That was the beginning of the bubble.

What you don't understand is that everyone, even Tulsa is still eating the profits that were made.

Why do you think housing values have seen signficant increases in Tulsa?  When I bought my home here I set a record for price by square foot in our neighborhood.  That record has since been eclipsed.

Give money to a billionnaire and it buys a $50M painting.  Give money to the middle class and it ripples and bounces around the economy creating jobs.

Luck?  I am a snake, the Chinese say that snakes and dragons are the luckiest signs.  I never discount the value of luck and I have always been very lucky.

But real estate has been a very small part of my life.  I'm a minor celebrity in the art world.  I was what they call a golden boy.

Don't let that get to you.  You're are still young and you have time to turn your life around.  I've always been drawn to beautiful losers.

If I had a dollar for every minor celebrity from the art world I've met, I'd be buying up $50mm paintings.  I've Googled you and it's as if you don't exist.  Your self-proclaimed celebrity status sounds a bit narcissistic to me.  I generally don't make it a habit to label people I've not met winners or losers, myself.

I don't know why you are proud you set a record for price per sq. ft. on Reservoir Hill, paying more for real estate than anyone else in my neighborhood doesn't make much sense and it's  nothing I'd brag about.

You do sound more and more like a typical out-of-touch limousine liberal.  You think donating to Democrat campaigns is the same as donating to charity.  You've benefitted from GOP-backed tax cuts on cap gains, and have likely never earned enough payroll income to put you into one of the punitive tax brackets, nor been a creator in the economy so that you might actually understand the foibles of liberalism.  You're just a worker bee.

[Hometown]

Sweetie, Give it a rest.

You don't know my name.  What did you Google?

My realtor thinks I could make $175,000 profit on my home on Reservoir Hill.  But that's basically just getting my money back.  I've only been there a few years.

Clinton pushed through the $250,000 capital gains exclusion on personal residences.  Truly the greatest wealth creation tool for the middle class in my lifetime.

I did well in the art world and then retired to worker bee status at Bay Area law firms and made out like a bandit.  I love the legal business.  I'm loving the legal business in Tulsa too.  

And I am a proud late model Ford liberal.

Hang on Conan, your hide tanning isn't today.  I'm still saving up.  Now you have a good night and I'll chat with you later.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Sweetie, Give it a rest.

You don't know my name.  What did you Google?

My realtor thinks I could make $175,000 profit on my home on Reservoir Hill.  But that's basically just getting my money back.  I've only been there a few years.

Clinton pushed through the $250,000 capital gains exclusion on personal residences.  Truly the greatest wealth creation tool for the middle class in my lifetime.

I did well in the art world and then retired to worker bee status at Bay Area law firms and made out like a bandit.  I love the legal business.  I'm loving the legal business in Tulsa too.  

And I am a proud late model Ford liberal.

Hang on Conan, your hide tanning isn't today.  I'm still saving up.  Now you have a good night and I'll chat with you later.

Mission accomplished, you've been exposed for the fraud of a liberal that you are.  Or do they call you guys "cafeteria libs" sort of like cafeteria Catholics take the parts that fit your lifestyle and 86 the rest?

Let's just say your boasts have inadvertently un-masked you.  You are chatting amongst a lot of very clever and well-connected people.

[waterboy]

Conan, I'm confused as to what your mission is with Ht? And just exactly what and how you exposed him?

He's perfectly able to defend himself, but I can't stand by and watch unfounded personal criticism without comment. Having been in contact with Ht online and in person, since before he moved here and since, I assure you he is genuine, intelligent, artful, and quite interesting. He is a pragmatic liberal who loves Tulsa and has invested in it.

Like you, he values his privacy.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Conan, I'm confused as to what your mission is with Ht? And just exactly what and how you exposed him?

He's perfectly able to defend himself, but I can't stand by and watch unfounded personal criticism without comment. Having been in contact with Ht online and in person, since before he moved here and since, I assure you he is genuine, intelligent, artful, and quite interesting. He is a pragmatic liberal who loves Tulsa and has invested in it.

Like you, he values his privacy.

A) I've not divulged his identity to anyone.

B) It doesn't concern you.

C) Hometown is a bull**** artist and that's about it.  I'm sick and tired of hearing his rantings about how Republicanism has ruined the country while he's been a direct beneficiary of the very fiscal policies which have enrichened him.  

That's all fine and good if someone has made out well as a result of the inflated housing market or any inflated investment market, that is the whole idea.  But, as one of the winners in the market, don't sit around and rail publicly about how the system has ripped off so many people.  Especially when you are holding a bag of what he would consider Republican ill-gotten gains.  

Sorry double-standard types just really, really get under my skin it's one of my OCD issues.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Conan, I'm confused as to what your mission is with Ht? And just exactly what and how you exposed him?

He's perfectly able to defend himself, but I can't stand by and watch unfounded personal criticism without comment. Having been in contact with Ht online and in person, since before he moved here and since, I assure you he is genuine, intelligent, artful, and quite interesting. He is a pragmatic liberal who loves Tulsa and has invested in it.

Like you, he values his privacy.

A) I've not divulged his identity to anyone.

B) It doesn't concern you.

C) Hometown is a bull**** artist and that's about it.  I'm sick and tired of hearing his rantings about how Republicanism has ruined the country while he's been a direct beneficiary of the very fiscal policies which have enrichened him.  

That's all fine and good if someone has made out well as a result of the inflated housing market or any inflated investment market, that is the whole idea.  But, as one of the winners in the market, don't sit around and rail publicly about how the system has ripped off so many people.  Especially when you are holding a bag of what he would consider Republican ill-gotten gains.  

Sorry double-standard types just really, really get under my skin it's one of my OCD issues.

A. Its unlikely you know his identity.

B. You posted on a public forum about a man I consider a friend. That made it my concern. Someone goes off on you, I'll do the same.

C. Turn abouts fair play. You have always grossly exagerrated the contributions of Republicans and how they are responsible for fiscal and social gains yet Dems and Libs are the root of tax and spend, corruption, social irresponsibility and naivete. Frankly, that comes from living in Tulsa too long. I got news for ya' bub, Liberal Democrats all over the country know how to achieve wealth, how to structure economies to produce and how to balance budgets. Its not a Republican thing. Its a business thing.  


He gets under your skin just like a lot of historical, political revisionists around here who pose as independents or Libertarians yet never vote outside of the republican party get under mine. I deal with it. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


B. You posted on a public forum about a man I consider a friend. That made it my concern. Someone goes off on you, I'll do the same.

He gets under your skin just like a lot of historical, political revisionists around here who pose as independents or Libertarians yet never vote outside of the republican party get under mine. I deal with it. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it.

I didn't see you go off when he suggested I'm a loser.  Did you happen to gloss over that?  Do you think I just randomly went off?  Not my style.  

Who's revisionist, Waterboy?  Someone who admits to their own party's contributions to the current financial debacle, or someone else denying that government-mandated low-income homeownership opened a pandora's box of unintended consequences to housing markets and the economy.  Faced with documented facts, people like you and HT are still in denial of any Democrat involvement.

There's a boat-load of election year myopia floating around.

You obviously aren't talking about me if you are referring to Repubs posing as independents or libertarians, considering half the candidates I voted for in the last mid-term  election were Democrats, I'm working on a Dem campaign this year and know of at least three or four Dems I will be voting for this year.

This has gone way, way OT.  The original point was that there's some serious irony in Democrats getting behind a bailout proposed by the administration who is behind all the failed fiscal policy which supposedly led to this debacle.  

Dems haven't offered anything constructive, only blame, seems to be a common mentality, even with posters here.  The impotent speaker of the house went off-script to take another election year pot-shot at Republicans.   The house vote failed and it was still all the GOP's fault for not passing.  Nevermind that 40% of the Democrat caucus didn't vote for it.  All they needed were 12 more votes.  The Dems didn't manage to deliver that and they are in the majority.

If you wish to continue discussion along those lines, I'm game, otherwise consider the topic dead.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


B. You posted on a public forum about a man I consider a friend. That made it my concern. Someone goes off on you, I'll do the same.

He gets under your skin just like a lot of historical, political revisionists around here who pose as independents or Libertarians yet never vote outside of the republican party get under mine. I deal with it. If you dish it out, be prepared to take it.

I didn't see you go off when he suggested I'm a loser.  Did you happen to gloss over that?  Do you think I just randomly went off?  Not my style.  

Who's revisionist, Waterboy?  Someone who admits to their own party's contributions to the current financial debacle, or someone else denying that government-mandated low-income homeownership opened a pandora's box of unintended consequences to housing markets and the economy.  Faced with documented facts, people like you and HT are still in denial of any Democrat involvement.

There's a boat-load of election year myopia floating around.

You obviously aren't talking about me if you are referring to Repubs posing as independents or libertarians, considering half the candidates I voted for in the last mid-term  election were Democrats, I'm working on a Dem campaign this year and know of at least three or four Dems I will be voting for this year.

This has gone way, way OT.  The original point was that there's some serious irony in Democrats getting behind a bailout proposed by the administration who is behind all the failed fiscal policy which supposedly led to this debacle.  

Dems haven't offered anything constructive, only blame, seems to be a common mentality, even with posters here.  The impotent speaker of the house went off-script to take another election year pot-shot at Republicans.   The house vote failed and it was still all the GOP's fault for not passing.  Nevermind that 40% of the Democrat caucus didn't vote for it.  All they needed were 12 more votes.  The Dems didn't manage to deliver that and they are in the majority.

If you wish to continue discussion along those lines, I'm game, otherwise consider the topic dead.

Who put you in charge?

Your world view is narrow and partisan Conan. Knowing you, that is tough to hear. This will be even worse, you are FB/Wrinkle without the overt racism. And you've been after HT for some time. He represents to you symbols of liberalism that you despise. They are popular myths and since I know him, I can assure you they don't apply.

Look, you are sitting in the nexus of conservativism, fundamentalism and Libertarianism. This state gives McCain a 30% edge over Obama. Even Arizona, his home state, gives him only plus 8%!! A Democrat here is a moderate Republican in California. Its not surprising then that your group doesn't take to criticism very well and endeavors to spin history and politics with a religious fervor. Its as though aliens have invaded. You all feel...mandated, obligated to clean up any inconsistencies or incongruencies with your vision.  

I enjoy a conservative viewpoint that is unapologetic and based in fact. George Will, Pat Buchanan, even Bates locally, but there isn't a thing in your post above that fits into my view of the truth. We are viewing the world through different prisms. But you and FB, Wrinkle, IP, Gas et. al. think your prism is superior. I have to deal with being told that Conservatives are Progressive? That Inhofe is well respected outside of OK? Wow. Well, fine with me. Just don't expect me to line up and debate each fine point based on images that I'm not seeing.

Lately, I have started to use the same tactics used on me the last year or so; ignoring well thought out logically presented posts, demeaning links, making glib hit and run posts, relaying partisan talking points, and name calling. Its not much fun and isn't received too well. Can't keep that up. However, it gave me some insight and that was worthwhile.

Challenge your paradigms Conan. Otherwise you're doomed to FB status.

[Conan71]

Who put me in charge?  I started the topic.  If you want to start a topic about my narrow-minded, Republican, Rovian, Inohofe-supporting superior mind-set, go for it.

When you run out of cogent points or are presented with facts contrary to your deeply-held beliefs, you obfuscate and call everyone else partisan or revisionist because they don't agree with your opinion or world-view.  I'm not the one with an absolute view of the world and I seldom make an assertion I'm not prepared to back up with documented fact.

At least some people on here are willing to admit when they are incorrect or are willing to listen, learn, and deviate from deeply-rooted prejudice (not racially-speaking prejudice).  You just don't seem to be one of those.  You and HT can't seem to tolerate it when your baseless assertions are repuidated by fact.

Other than not consistently posting a bunch of moonbat libtard non-sense which isn't your own work, I fail to see how your kind of blind liberalism is much different than FOTD/Aox.

[Hometown]

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I had to run over to the bank and deposit an interest check from one our big fat cds.

Gosh I was worried all night that I had mispelled "hide."  That's the legal secretary in me.

Thank you Waterboy.  You are a scholar and a gentleman.

Conan, It looks like I struck your nerve.  

Well I'm going to tell you what you already know.  I enjoy your company.  I like you.

Now don't get confused.  I know Republicans inside out and I am your sworn enemy.  And I delight in letting you know that outside of Republican enclaves you are not well thought of.

Waterboy, you and Conan have a friendship and I think the important thing to do today is to hug and make up (no knives allowed).

So smack, smack, smack.  That's me giving you some big sloppy kisses.  HMMMMGrrrrrrrrrr.  That's me giving you both a big bear hug.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Irony, Anyone?

Kucinich: Bailout 'Driven by Fear Not Fact'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGzLfmV4Ks

Kucinich on Why Bailout is being Rushed & Why It Shouldn't Be 1/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS6k369DbA4&feature=related

Kucinich on the bailout-2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWn5UQtvItU&feature=related

Kucinich, as a rarity, sounds completely rational on this issue.  Where was this Dennis in the POTUS campaign?  Yeah, I agreed with Kucinich.  You might want to date stamp it, print it, and save a few copies on disk, I doubt it happens again.

What Irony is there in Kucinich's statements?  Not poking you personally, just curious what irony you saw in it.

The point of irony referenced in the original post was the haste with which Democrat leaders were wanting to follow the direction of President Bush and Sect'y Paulson, who they fault for failed economic policy.

Your predictable reaction to Dennis Kucinich is the irony.

Especially when you BLAME the working poor and minorities for a crises that involves a $700 billion bailout.

$700 billion dollars could literallly BUY THE WORKING POOR a $250,000 house per family....

How dare you parrot the views of Michelle Maulkin and her subtle racism and outright classism.... the people Maulkin blames for America's problems don't have enough money or power to do the kind of damage Maulkin alleges...

http://www.stephenbainbridge.com/index.php/punditry/they_make_you_embarrassed_to_be_a_conservative/

Put simply, the freezing up of the credit markets doesn't have anything to do with either affirmative action or illegal immigration, and people who believe it does are on a par with the conspiracy theorists who think fluoridation is a Chicom plot.

When you look at the data, it's true that minorities are slightly over-represented in the sub-prime mortgage market. Yet, whites (non-minorities) received 72.5% of subprime mortgages. Blacks got 16.2% of subprime mortgages, which isn't all that different from the 12.4% of the general population that blacks comprise. The Hispanics about whom Malkin is so hysterical got only 6.2% of subprime mortgages, significantly less than their 14.8% of the general population. But you don't find an analysis of that data at blogs like those of Malkin or Krikorian.

------------------------------------------------

Most subprime loans continue to be held by whites. Having said that, it is true that there is evidence of pricing disparities between white and minority borrowers. What's striking, however, is that "black and Hispanic borrowers were far more likely to be steered into high-cost subprime loans than other borrowers, even after controlling for factors such as income, loan size and property location." One might not unreasonably infer that discrimination drove much of the ethnic disparities in this market. Indeed, the data indicate that black homeowners who received subprime mortgage loans were much more likely to be issued a higher-rate loan than white borrowers with the same qualifications. (See 1693 PLI/Corp 655, available on Westlaw.) Indeed, it appears that many minorities who would have qualified for prime loans were unnecessarily channeled by predatory lenders into more expensive subprime financing. The Malkin case simply doesn't hold water.

------------------------------------------------

http://rismedia.com/wp/2008-07-23/report-shows-subprime-rate-lending-dominant-with-non-hispanic-whites-and-upper-income-borrowers/

When you blame lower income folks for the problems with subprime-rate-lending, you blame people like me.... if I had a different skin color, I'd be "part of the problem."

I know that I could have been screwed by Chicagoland real estate people into believing the only way I could ever own a home was through special programs so I could spend over 45% of my income on an overpriced mortgage.... housing prices kept getting higher and higher and higher so I figured this would be the ONLY WAY I COULD EVER OWN A HOME.

Instead, I moved to Tulsa.  If there is no bailout at all, will I be able to get a home I should be able to afford?

Not sure.

I blame greedy condo-flipping speculation for the housing bubble in Chicago.... I don't blame hard working poor people trying to support their families... I also don't blame the people who owned their properties for years and years before "cashing out."

I know who holds the cards here; I'm a pragmatist.  I don't want to eat this XXXX Sandwich.... unfortunately, the drumbeat of deregulation since the Reagan Administration continues to perpetuate the free market LIES that took this country from a union-influenced manufacturing base to a non-union service based economy...

I supported Dick Gephardt in 1988.
I consider Bill Clinton to be the best Republican president we've ever had.
I supported Ralph Nader in 2000.
I very much appreciated the appeal of Howard Dean in 2004, until he relied too heavily on political novices who volunteered to campaign for him in Iowa.
I have respect for Dennis Kucinich in this debate but understand that my job and my future will be at stake....

Did Hometown benefit from this?  Of course he did..... at least he didn't support all the craptastic Grover Nordquist Cult policies Republicans have advocated over the years... so, all I gotta say is:  

DON'T HATE THE PLAYA, HATE THE GAME!  [B)]

Funny that all this crap takes place only a few days from Yom Kippur.....

SCAPEGOAT  

1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur

2 a: one that bears the blame for others b: one that is the object of irrational hostility

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Sorry for the delay in responding.  I had to run over to the bank and deposit an interest check from one our big fat cds.

Gosh I was worried all night that I had mispelled "hide."  That's the legal secretary in me.

Thank you Waterboy.  You are a scholar and a gentleman.

Conan, It looks like I struck your nerve.  

Well I'm going to tell you what you already know.  I enjoy your company.  I like you.

Now don't get confused.  I know Republicans inside out and I am your sworn enemy.  And I delight in letting you know that outside of Republican enclaves you are not well thought of.

Waterboy, you and Conan have a friendship and I think the important thing to do today is to hug and make up (no knives allowed).

So smack, smack, smack.  That's me giving you some big sloppy kisses.  HMMMMGrrrrrrrrrr.  That's me giving you both a big bear hug.

Hometown, there's no way to break this to you gently-

You are a CLOSETED REPUBLICAN!!!!!

[Hometown]

Yes Baby.