New Hotel Proposed Across from Arena

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

I have created a gallery that will change as the project progresses.  I will post all public up-to-date images and animations here, and once we begin to produce imagery and concepts for the selected hotel, restaurants, and other retailers, I will post them here.


Raskin Downtown Image Post

All suggestions are very welcome and taken seriously.

I think most would agree that this development is superior. The problem is apparently not with the renderings, design, or what could be added to it.... Its the funding. Get the funding and you get the go. As much as we would all want this one, and sorry to sound harsh, until there is funding, its nothing but pretty drawings and hot air. That doesnt make a judgment on the other project and whether it should be stopped, changed, whatever, just stating facts on this one.

Not worried about funding.

Mr. Raskin will announce proof of funding on the project soon.

Yay lol. [8D]

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar


Mr. Raskin will announce proof of funding on the project soon.

In this case, the sooner the better. LOL. My stomach has been in knots all week because of this. []

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

I have created a gallery that will change as the project progresses.  I will post all public up-to-date images and animations here, and once we begin to produce imagery and concepts for the selected hotel, restaurants, and other retailers, I will post them here.


Raskin Downtown Image Post

All suggestions are very welcome and taken seriously.

If he fails to get this spot, will he look at the Autobank or City hall locations?

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
Raskin Downtown Image Post

All suggestions are very welcome and taken seriously.

Has there been any consideration of a terra cotta frieze on the south side of the tower that extends up the SW corner of the hotel? Or, any kind of detailing so common in art deco buildings?  I think it would serve the building well to take some cues from our existing buildings:



Additionally, will the exterior be made of brick?

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by dsjeffries

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar
Raskin Downtown Image Post

All suggestions are very welcome and taken seriously.

Has there been any consideration of a terra cotta frieze on the south side of the tower that extends up the SW corner of the hotel? Or, any kind of detailing so common in art deco buildings?  I think it would serve the building well to take some cues from our existing buildings:



Additionally, will the exterior be made of brick?

as I said before those are just specific STYLES of art deco.  art deco is a movement.  Do we only want to build buildings that have a zigzag or WPA art deco style, or do we want any and all art deco?  I'm voting for the later because although I do think those buildings from the past are great, we need to show Tulsa can take art deco into the future.

I agree with inteller about taking Art Deco into the future, not just create some cheap imitation which you see sadly in Miami.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

Do we only want to build buildings that have a zigzag or WPA art deco style, or do we want any and all art deco?  I'm voting for the later because although I do think those buildings from the past are great, we need to show Tulsa can take art deco into the future.

Very good point. I'd love to see some more modern interpretations of the elements from the art deco movement, showcasing our past and our future. Advancements in glass technologies have improved since then, as well as illumination technologies. Maybe patric could chime in on some suggestions?

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by inteller
as I said before those are just specific STYLES of art deco.  art deco is a movement.  Do we only want to build buildings that have a zigzag or WPA art deco style, or do we want any and all art deco?  I'm voting for the later because although I do think those buildings from the past are great, we need to show Tulsa can take art deco into the future.

I agree.  I included those pictures as examples of the many kinds of art deco.  While each is different, they do all have some kind of detail work.  I just think the building needs some.

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by joiei
I agree with inteller about taking Art Deco into the future, not just create some cheap imitation which you see sadly in Miami.

well now that's not true, Miami just has more examples of the streamline moderne style of art deco....which I prefer actually.  The building frenzy in Tulsa had slowed somewhat when streamline moderne came along towards the end of the main movement.  There are a couple of smaller examples of streamline around tulsa....but in reality to "compliment" our polished bed pan downtown I think the hotel should pull more elements of streamline moderne than some intricate facades found in PWA or zigzag works.

I wasn't including any of the iconic buildings from the past, I was talking about some of the newer stuff outside of the older parts of town that are trying to copy the original buildings but doing so in a poor way, sort of like some of our new Tuscan inspired architectural drek we see popping up aroung here especially in commercial buildings, i.e. strip shopping centers.  Some of the new stuff is good but some is really dreadful.

edited to add, I am with you on streamline moderne,  a hotel that would do that across the street from the arena would be a good thing.

[MDepr2007]

Wow I thought everyone liked the arena look. Now everyone wants to go back in style? [)]

[joiei]

No, not going back, taking the heritage of what we already have and then taking it into a new level of design.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar



.....

All suggestions are very welcome and taken seriously.

Well if you insist....

I took this rendering.


And made some tweaks. Lightened everything a bit, especially the colors of the windows. I felt that if the color of the building (golden sand) were soft and light, that a softer and lighter glass color (aqua) would compliment it better. Left and enhanced the bold red to add a little flair. Then redrew the curve on the tower and added a little touch on top to bring out more of the deco while still keeping it clean and contemporary. Just seemed to need something extra. Hope you at least find it interesting.

[RecycleMichael]

I know, let's build the hotel to look like a big castle.

Oh, it's been done?

[TheArtist]

It is tricky, when you add a detail it can throw off the balance and make you want to add some other detail in another spot. You either have to leave this one alone, add just a smidge, or tweak up some other areas for balance. Seems that if you were going to tweak up the design a bit, you would either add some more art-deco suggestions or shift gears towards more contemporary.

Here are some other deco "variations". I also like the "topper" ideas suggested in the new art-deco buildings on the bottom left and right.



Some other contemporary deco stuff.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

that ship style streamline in the lower left corner is cool.  Is that in Miami?

Those are new apartments in San Fran believe it or not. There is of course a ton of new streamline deco in Miami though. From looking at some of the pics I have seen lately, there is a lot more than there was even just 5 years ago when I was there last. They have really added on to their deco heritage. Though I like the streamline style, I would almost rather Tulsa accentuate a different deco style in any of its new deco buildings. That way it would keep us distinctive. I would rather us add "Tulsa Deco" than Miami Deco. I can see us doing more deco in brick and prarie deco style, or going whith the more dramatic, over the top, NY/Chicago style deco. If the Hampton in is the one that is approved. They typically do brick like the one in OKC. So I would hope that we would push for it to be brick/deco with a Tulsa flair. We cant really expect a mid-range hotel like the Hampton to be the over the top style deco, for thats very expensive to do, but it could definitely be done in brick with "stone" accents.

Tulsa has a very wide range of styles of art-deco, but Again, if we are going to build up a unique Tulsa Deco look, perhaps it shouldnt do the Miami streamline thing, but go its own way and develope a Tulsa style of contemporary art-deco. If we were to do both the Ballpark and the Hampton inn with a brick/deco look... and perhaps even some of the developments around the Ballpark in that manner with a contemporary/brick/deco twist... well it could be the start of something quite interesting.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

I'd love to see some more modern interpretations of the elements from the art deco movement, showcasing our past and our future. Advancements in glass technologies have improved since then, as well as illumination technologies.

Illumination technologies have a tendency to be abused (as we see among many of our floodlighted structures) but the inverse could be true if the builder's heart and science are in the right place.

L.E.D. technology isnt so great when it's used as a giant roadside video screen to lure people into a car lot or casino, but prudent design make L.E.D.'s a very practical replacement for neon accents.  The light source behind translucent glass bricks, for example, would be safer to operate and easier to maintain if it were solid state instead of a long gas-filled tube with high voltage flowing through it.

I would discourage any sort of flashing or Vegas-style animation, despite the fact that the technology makes that very easy and tempting.

And since L.E.D.'s are rapidly emerging as the next big thing in street illumination, we're going to have to learn to distinguish between designs that are meant to be seen from those that are meant to help us see.
People like DTU dont understand that their decorative fixtures that look so good in the daytime arent so decorative at night because they are a source of blinding eye-level glare that overwhelms any possible appreciation of the fixture's artistic beauty.

Decorative illumination must have an intensity sedate enough to be able to look directly at the fixture without discomfort or visual disability.
To not be able to do so defeats the purpose of having decorative lighting.
"Acorn"-style lights fail because modern levels of illumination necessary to light a street surface cant be achieved (when the Acorn is used as the primary source of illumination) without creating more glare than useful light.

In the past when the goal of lighting a structure was to create a luminant face, massive floodlighting has been the cheap and easy way out.  A more worthwhile goal might be for the surface to be the light source rather than simply an inefficient reflector.  Not only would that approach eliminate the stray, wasted floodlighting associated with skyglow and migratory bird kills, but the intensity could be  easily modified to give the building a presence without being a gaudily bright one.

Moderation in all things.