New Hotel Proposed Across from Arena

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

I like the massing model you've created but explain some things to me
1.  Where is the main entrance to the hotel in the rendering, on 3rd or on Cheyenne?  I personally think 3rd would be the best place for a grand entrance to both the hotel and retail/restaurant space.  Is there another entrance on Denver?

Main entrance is still up in the air, but we would like to focus all street exposure to the South and West on retail.  Hotel/Garage entrances serve only that purpose.  As we develop the design with our hotel, I'm sure things will change.  There has already been some discussion about making the tower and parking more central as not to interfere with maximizing the Retail exposure.

quote:
2.  Is the mass at the corner of 3rd and Cheyenne the parking garage?  If so why not move the garage to 2nd and Cheyenne and have the hotel rise at the more important 3rd and Cheyenne corner?

Possible, but the current location keeps the mass of the building from being too close to the elevation of the BOK.  Gives it more of a relaxed/reclined look and offers all of the rooftop space for possible development.  Maximizes the important views.

quote:
3.  I like that you've included retail/restaurant space along Denver.  What kind of potential tenants are you thinking for this area?  Some type of rooftop patio element for a restaurant/bar would be awesome here.

Mostly restaurant and bar tenants.  No one is going to buy a suit or a lounge chair on their way to a show at the BOK, but they will want to eat and drink.  We have some very exciting and unique concepts in the works.  Yes the roof is also valuable space and will be used as the project develops.

quote:

As far as design goes, I stayed at a hotel in Seattle recently called the Pan Pacific that was exceptional.  It's a good example of how a hotel (and this case a condo tower as well) can effectively take up an entire block and mix together retail/restaurants while hiding parking.  Here is a pic I took, the colors of which are similar to your rendering with balconies and lots of glass:


And another which shows a brick "base" which would be appropriate in downtown Tulsa with our abundance of 2-3 story brick buildings and then either brick or another high quality material on the upper floors (I personally think sand colored brick, like some of our Art Deco gems, would look amazing).  Again lots of glass, balconies, and setbacks with some "Deco" detailing.  Some aluminum/steel elements would also be interesting as a nod to the adjacent BOK Center, and would give it a more contemporary look:

Very nice.  We see a lot of this type of architecture, and we too like it, but part of this project is to embrace Tulsa's Deco roots and develop a complementary structure to the BOK.  We hope that this will stimulate future development that is "Tulsa Style" not Dallas, or Kansas City, or San Diego style.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

I like the massing model you've created but explain some things to me
1.  Where is the main entrance to the hotel in the rendering, on 3rd or on Cheyenne?  I personally think 3rd would be the best place for a grand entrance to both the hotel and retail/restaurant space.

Facing the bus station?

[TheArtist]

Rendering looks better. Much cleaner and more detail. But... I am still concerned about where the colors are going. I would either go with the darker colored glass like you have in those last renderings and then richen up the wall colors. Or go with pale wall colors and pale glass.

The design is nice over all, but the color choice alone can make a wooorld of difference. Hate to say, it but right now the color choice looks very "staid". Its saying, "Ok, here is just another common, everyday, dreary hotel that you would stagger into on a business trip, after the end of a long day."

[SXSW]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Rendering looks better. Much cleaner and more detail. But... I am still concerned about where the colors are going. I would either go with the darker colored glass like you have in those last renderings and then richen up the wall colors. Or go with pale wall colors and pale glass.

The design is nice over all, but the color choice alone can make a wooorld of difference. Hate to say, it but right now the color choice looks very "staid". Its saying, "Ok, here is just another common, everyday, dreary hotel that you would stagger into on a business trip, after the end of a long day."

I think with more detail it would show up better.  I think either red or sandstone brick would be the best exterior material with lots of clear glass mixed in (like the prelim. rendering shows) and like I said before aluminum/steel elements as a nod to the BOK Center and Art Deco details.  Stay away from EIFS or Stucco if at all possible.  

Can't wait to see more detailed renderings.  Something that takes the massing and Deco details you have shown but shows more depth.  The placement of glazing and mullions can have a big effect and turn an otherwise "bland" building into something great, another example:

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Rendering looks better. Much cleaner and more detail. But... I am still concerned about where the colors are going. I would either go with the darker colored glass like you have in those last renderings and then richen up the wall colors. Or go with pale wall colors and pale glass.

The design is nice over all, but the color choice alone can make a wooorld of difference. Hate to say, it but right now the color choice looks very "staid". Its saying, "Ok, here is just another common, everyday, dreary hotel that you would stagger into on a business trip, after the end of a long day."

I agree, we typically use a very limited pallet at the conceptual stage of a structure to keep the modeling/texturing time to a minimum and develop a more detailed color scheme as the concept develops.  We will also do a photo study of the surrounding properties.

[tshane250]

I really like the renderings thus far Gaspar.  My only comment for the project has to do with the look and feel of the retail component.  Making it all appear as though it is one giant building makes it too monolithic for me personally.  It would be cool it you could make it look as though there are several separate, but attached, buildings similar to a main street.  Use a variation of materials and even deco styles on the facades to break it up a bit.  

Just an observation on my part.  Not sure of all the costs involved in doing something like that, but thought I would add.

[SXSW]

Curious, what rendering software did you use?  It looks like Kerkythea, SketchUp?  Maybe you can get with Matrix and see if they'll get you a nice model of BOK for your rendering.  You might also try OU-Tulsa's graduate Urban Design program, they do lots of downtown projects and I'd imagine they have SU models, CAD files, etc. that show more of the built environment.  Now whether they give them to you or not that's another story...[]

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

Curious, what rendering software did you use?  It looks like Kerkythea, SketchUp?  Maybe you can get with Matrix and see if they'll get you a nice model of BOK for your rendering.  You might also try OU-Tulsa's graduate Urban Design program, they do lots of downtown projects and I'd imagine they have SU models, CAD files, etc. that show more of the built environment.  Now whether they give them to you or not that's another story...[]

Well, that would take a long answer.  I use a hybrid Mac/PC system (don't ask, it's complicated) linked to 38 duel processor computers running RenderBull.  I model in Sketchup but render in Strata, Maya, or VUE, depending on the look I am going for and the size of the development.  

I have used Kerkythea.  It's far too limited and it teaches bad habits.   But it's free!

[TheArtist]

Wow, regardless, beats the heck out of my old photoshop program on my even older Dell computer lol.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Wow, regardless, beats the heck out of my old photoshop program on my even older Dell computer lol.

Hey we have a bunch of folks here in our land planning dept that can do amazing things with an old version of Photoshop and about 8 Mountain Dews!

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar


Well, that would take a long answer.  I use a hybrid Mac/PC system (don't ask, it's complicated) linked to 38 duel processor computers running RenderBull.

Sounds like time to upgrade. Multicore.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar


Well, that would take a long answer.  I use a hybrid Mac/PC system (don't ask, it's complicated) linked to 38 duel processor computers running RenderBull.

Sounds like time to upgrade. Multicore.

We are slowly!

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Kinda looks like the new Hilton in Branson

[PonderInc]

I'm hoping the parking garage will include some fake windows or something.  Even with some architectural details, it still screams "parking garage" to me.

Also might be good to include a drawing from the perspective of looking out of the BOK Center.  Since a big part of the iconic glass wall and the windows encircling the arena were to allow people to enjoy the Tulsa skyline.

[SXSW]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I'm hoping the parking garage will include some fake windows or something.  Even with some architectural details, it still screams "parking garage" to me.

Also might be good to include a drawing from the perspective of looking out of the BOK Center.  Since a big part of the iconic glass wall and the windows encircling the arena were to allow people to enjoy the Tulsa skyline.

Good point.  I can understand why the tower will rise at 2nd and Cheyenne so as not to completely block the view.

I also agree about the parking garage, hopefully it can done to blend in like a regular building.  This garage is Austin is pretty cool: