leon's sports bar,,,

[swake]

Wonder what will be in this space next?

Yeah, I do not see this lasting very long.

[Conan71]

Wonder what will be in this space next?

You mean after Bricktown Brewery FAILs in this spot?

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Chase did purchase the land with the intention of building his brewery there then realized the cost to build it would have been ridiculous.

Krebs/Choc just announced another expansion and will soon employ 60 people.

What would've made the cost ridiculous? Wasn't there some issue with sewer/septic system large enough to handle the amount of water waste that comes with a brewery?

Good news that Choc and Prairie are expanding!

[DTowner]

Has anyone looked closely at what changes the current liquor modernization (if adopted) will have on brew pubs?  From my quick read, it appears it will allow brewers in Oklahoma to engage in direct sales so long as they are a "small brewer" - which is or will be defined by statute.  Would this be enough under current law to allow brew pubs to brew and sell/serve the beer on-site, or would it still be limited to the brewery "tasting room" restrictions we have now?

[DTowner]

You mean after Bricktown Brewery FAILs in this spot?

The German biergarten concept across the street in the old Ciao space did not last long.

[Conan71]

What would've made the cost ridiculous? Wasn't there some issue with sewer/septic system large enough to handle the amount of water waste that comes with a brewery?

Good news that Choc and Prairie are expanding!

I sell quite a few boilers to the micro brew industry and I was holding a boiler for his brewhouse for that project on a handshake deal and had to keep hounding him to see if it was going to happen or not.  I believe the original idea was to consolidate all his brewing to the Mounds location instead of gypsy brewing in Krebs and running his specialty beers out of west Tulsa.  That would have meant all new brewhouse equipment (I think he was looking at 20 or 30bbl system) new fermentation tanks, larger bright tanks, etc.  You can spend a few million pretty quickly with a brewery.

No idea all the specifics, I just know what Chase told me which was he got to looking at the costs and debt service and felt he was better off not doing it.  And yes, it takes a LOT of water to brew beer.  For that kind of volume, the septic system would be quite costly.  It would more than likely have to be some sort of lagoon to handle that much effluent.

[Conan71]

The German biergarten concept across the street in the old Ciao space did not last long.

Never even heard of it.  That's kind of an issue when avid craft beer fans don't even know it's there.

[Tulsasaurus Rex]

The German biergarten concept across the street in the old Ciao space did not last long.

When was that?

[Ibanez]

Chase did purchase the land with the intention of building his brewery there then realized the cost to build it would have been ridiculous.

Krebs/Choc just announced another expansion and will soon employ 60 people.

That's too bad about them not building out there. Mostly because it is close to my house.

I remember when Choc was impossible to find outside of the Krebs/McAlester area. Nice that you can get it just about everywhere now. I still think they changed the original recipe though when they renamed it to 1919, just doesn't taste the same to me.

I do enjoy their Dubbel and usually have some in the beer fridge.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

The German biergarten concept across the street in the old Ciao space did not last long.

I wanted to try that place but it was closed before I had a chance! It was only open, what six months? I wonder what the deal was. I see restaurants open and close in 6 months and wonder how could they possibly not be prepared to at least stick it out a year (emergency fund - even if built into business loan). Why even spend the time/capital to startup if closing in a few months is even a possibility? What a waste! Seems like a tough business!

[Conan71]

I wanted to try that place but it was closed before I had a chance! It was only open, what six months? I wonder what the deal was. I see restaurants open and close in 6 months and wonder how could they possibly not be prepared to at least stick it out a year (emergency fund - even if built into business loan). Why even spend the time/capital to startup if closing in a few months is even a possibility? What a waste! Seems like a tough business!

The restaurant business is like life:  The dumber you are, the tougher it gets.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

I sell quite a few boilers to the micro brew industry and I was holding a boiler for his brewhouse for that project on a handshake deal and had to keep hounding him to see if it was going to happen or not.  I believe the original idea was to consolidate all his brewing to the Mounds location instead of gypsy brewing in Krebs and running his specialty beers out of west Tulsa.  That would have meant all new brewhouse equipment (I think he was looking at 20 or 30bbl system) new fermentation tanks, larger bright tanks, etc.  You can spend a few million pretty quickly with a brewery.

No idea all the specifics, I just know what Chase told me which was he got to looking at the costs and debt service and felt he was better off not doing it.  And yes, it takes a LOT of water to brew beer.  For that kind of volume, the septic system would be quite costly.  It would more than likely have to be some sort of lagoon to handle that much effluent.

Wouldn't the brewing equipment cost be about the same no matter where they put their brewery? Property cost will certainly be higher if they build one near downtown Tulsa like I heard them mention. I wonder what the nail(s) in the coffin was for the Mounds location (too expensive to build at that location or mostly the septic system).

That would be frustrating to buy that property, put all the work in only to find out they can't use it! I am glad they are staying close to Tulsa and that's probably better for them. I'm a hardcore Prairie fan and was a regular at the 21st location for a while but I would rarely if ever go to Mounds (especially to drink!) and I doubt many of my friends would either.

[Conan71]

Wouldn't the brewing equipment cost be about the same no matter where they put their brewery? Property cost will certainly be higher if they build one near downtown Tulsa like I heard them mention. I wonder what the nail(s) in the coffin was for the Mounds location (too expensive to build at that location or mostly the septic system).

That would be frustrating to buy that property, put all the work in only to find out they can't use it! I am glad they are staying close to Tulsa and that's probably better for them. I'm a hardcore Prairie fan and was a regular at the 21st location for a while but I would rarely if ever go to Mounds (especially to drink!) and I doubt many of my friends would either.

Brewing equipment cost is the same.  But, from the aspect of continuing to brew specialty beer on equipment he already owns and gypsy brewing the high volume beers on someone else's equipment, it would be a significant cost addition he would have to support. 

I gathered that the economic reality really didn't sink in until he'd bought the property.

[davideinstein]

The restaurant business is like life:  The dumber you are, the tougher it gets.

True story.

[DowntownDan]

Wouldn't the brewing equipment cost be about the same no matter where they put their brewery? Property cost will certainly be higher if they build one near downtown Tulsa like I heard them mention. I wonder what the nail(s) in the coffin was for the Mounds location (too expensive to build at that location or mostly the septic system).

That would be frustrating to buy that property, put all the work in only to find out they can't use it! I am glad they are staying close to Tulsa and that's probably better for them. I'm a hardcore Prairie fan and was a regular at the 21st location for a while but I would rarely if ever go to Mounds (especially to drink!) and I doubt many of my friends would either.

When I read about the potential move to Mounds I had just come back from Vermont and I got the feeling that they the facility would be something like the rural farm breweries they have in that state.  Would have been pretty cool, though I too would worry about having to find a designated driver.  The in town brew pub was also a rumor at that time so I thought they could fill growlers at the brew pub and offer bus tours from Tulsa to the farm brewery.  

Who knows what's next for those guys.  There now are tons of craft breweries and they've manged to find a niche.  They are popular nationally and known internationally.  The Prairie brewpub sign in the Brady District is really cool and will probably make a bunch of beer magazines in the coming months.