Better Streetlights for Tulsa

[heironymouspasparagus]

I want one to go with the lava lamps!!

[patric]

Turn Down the City Lights and Make Streets Safer
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-24/turn-down-the-city-lights-and-make-streets-safer.html

No one doubts that artificial light can reduce the risks of being out at night, and no one is saying that we ought to exist in the dark. But increasingly, police, doctors, astronomers, economists, business leaders, communities and now the French government agree that we should reduce the light we use, and that too much brightness at night actually reduces our safety and security. Bright lights may make us feel safer. Alone, however, they don't actually make us safer.

The research bears this out. In 2008, PG&E Corp. (PCG), the San Francisco-based energy company, reviewed the research and found "either that there is no link between lighting and crime, or that any link is too subtle or complex to have been evident in the data."

Others are even more to the point. Australian astronomer Barry Clark went so far as to conclude that "advocating lighting for crime prevention is like advocating use of a flammable liquid to try to put out a fire."

Our own eyes tell the same story. Too much light at night actually blinds us with "disability glare" -- something middle-aged and elderly drivers know all too well -- and bright, unshielded lights make it impossible to see past them to where criminals might hide.

[patric]

A homeless couple living in a car parked under a streetlight were beaten
and robbed:

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4061896

[heironymouspasparagus]

A homeless couple living in a car parked under a streetlight were beaten
and robbed:

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4061896

So.....having street lights in a city is dangerous!

It draws robbers in much the same way it draws other bugs!

[Conan71]

A homeless couple living in a car parked under a streetlight were beaten
and robbed:

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4061896

Living in a car in an alley near Admiral and Pittsburg has more to do with it than being parked under a light.

[Gaspar]

Living in a car in an alley near Admiral and Pittsburg has more to do with it than being parked under a light.

It's harder to beat folks in the dark.

The "streetlight" the people were parked under in the alley behind Supurb Motors, was not actually a "streetlight."  It was the Supurb (yes that's how they spell it) Motors security light.


It seems that nightfall at Admiral and Pittsburg would be rather scary for this Southie, even well-armed.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's harder to beat folks in the dark.

The "streetlight" the people were parked under in the alley behind Supurb Motors, was not actually a "streetlight."  It was the Supurb (yes that's how they spell it) Motors security light.

It seems that nightfall at Admiral and Pittsburg would be rather scary for this Southie, even well-armed.

Get a Colt or Bushmaster.  I saw both in stock last weekend!  Imagine that.....

[RecycleMichael]

Get a Colt or Bushmaster.  I saw both in stock last weekend!  Imagine that.....

That is the most stupid post you have ever made. There were many reasons why this happened, including people mentioning above the lighting, homeless people living in the car, the seedy neighborhood...and your answer is get a gun.

Why try to solve any social problem, just get a gun.

You are brilliant and so, so deep.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That is the most stupid post you have ever made. There were many reasons why this happened, including people mentioning above the lighting, homeless people living in the car, the seedy neighborhood...and your answer is get a gun.

Why try to solve any social problem, just get a gun.

You are brilliant and so, so deep.

Well, it was tongue in cheek until now..... it was a mildly facetious thought directed at Gaspar, who expressed the idea he might be concerned even if well-armed.  (Shame we cannot get inflection in text...)


In all seriousness - they could actually have defended themselves if they had a firearm of some sort.  But since they were homeless, it's not likely they could afford that, now is it?  And we can see by the results just how well lights worked.... and cops?  Well, even if they had a phone to call with (don't know about that one way or the other), it would be the typical situation of how the police are only minutes away when seconds count.

Shows one of the heartrending facts of our 'modern society'...as so often - the majority really - poor people prey upon other poor people.  Yeah, I know it's a generalization that more criminals tend to be from less affluent situations - at least as far at this type of violent crime.  But it is also true.

So rather than just a generic wringing of hands, how do we handle these type social situations?  Seriously.  'Cause so far, we do a pretty crappy job of it.  The poor are marginalized at the edges and don't impinge on our collective consciousness until this kind of thing occurs, then they make the headlines for a few minutes (15 minutes of fame?) and fall back by the wayside.

[patric]

In all seriousness - they could actually have defended themselves if they had a firearm of some sort.  But since they were homeless, it's not likely they could afford that, now is it?  And we can see by the results just how well lights worked.... and cops?

Who would have gone to jail if they were discovered to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle they were living in?
Sometimes, the law is an s.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Who would have gone to jail if they were discovered to have a loaded firearm in the vehicle they were living in?
Sometimes, the law is an s.

Good question - they could argue that since it is their primary residence, they are legally able to have it for self defense like people in other domiciles.  That would be an interesting court session, I think.

[sauerkraut]

I'm not a big fan of street lights- when driving you don't even notice 'em, drivers depend on their headlights. The trail lights on the RiverSide Jogging trail are on every night- I don't see why a jogging trail has to have lights anyhow.

[Hoss]

I'm not a big fan of street lights- when driving you don't even notice 'em, drivers depend on their headlights. The trail lights on the RiverSide Jogging trail are on every night- I don't see why a jogging trail has to have lights anyhow.

Don't you think they might deter muggers/ne-er do wells?

Wow.

[Red Arrow]

Don't you think they might deter muggers/ne-er do wells?

Wow.

Nah, those guys are already there.  The lights attract victims.

[patric]

Nah, those guys are already there.  The lights attract victims.
 

The jogging trail lights serve a useful purpose in helping identify hazards and land features at night.  
They serve a secondary purpose by creating an inviting environment and extending public utilization of the park past sundown.
Both of those functions are greatly enhanced by the fact that those lights are shielded, and have reduced glare output.

Now I wouldn't say that there weren't specific circumstances where their presence didn't defer or obstruct the commission of a violent crime, but one would have to be very naive to believe that happens with any consistency.
If the lighting were to attract more "friendly eyes" into the area, however, you would be much more safe than if you were alone and in the spotlight.