Community Gardens in Tulsa - zoning change!

[cannon_fodder]

Buckeye, were you being serious?

Your fear is that a community garden will fall into neglect, attract bums, flowers will die and because of that the city will confiscate the property and sell it to a slum lord.

I say we ban grass in empty lots because they are not always mowed.  Take down park equipment because it breaks.  Burn down our trees because in ice storms they cause problems. 

If the community plants a garden and it fails, they are right back where they started.  With an empty lot.  It is about as hard to tear out a garden and mow over the plot as it would be to mow an abandon lot in the first place.  Maybe, MAYBE an extra 15 minutes.   If all of the neighbors that spent hours petitioning for, funding and planting a garden walk away I'll come and spend 15 minutes removing the garden so the owner of the lot can mow the entire thing easily.

If bums move into a lot because a garden falls into disrepair I will personal chase them away with a broom.

If the city tries to take a lot because a garden falls into disrepair I will volunteer my time to defend the property owners rights (since it will never, ever happen by statute I say this with great confidence).

When the garden project dies off you end up with a lot just like it was before.  As filthy of a weed patch, just as many bums, and an equal number of cigarette butts littering the area.   So to stop the lot from become what it already is, we should ban gardens.

The argument is simply horrible.

[buckeye]

No, not serious, and even funnier to me now that you've taken it as such.



I think community gardens really are a terrific idea, but my pessimistic view of human nature tells me they'll start with a bang and fizzle pretty quickly.  We can all hope, however, that I'm wrong.  Seriously.

But "MAYBE 15 minutes" to remove the remnants of an old garden?  I think your status as an optimist is revealed... 

[Gaspar]

No, not serious, and even funnier to me now that you've taken it as such.



I think community gardens really are a terrific idea, but my pessimistic view of human nature tells me they'll start with a bang and fizzle pretty quickly.  We can all hope, however, that I'm wrong.  Seriously.

But "MAYBE 15 minutes" to remove the remnants of an old garden?  I think your status as an optimist is revealed... 

The enthusiasm will only be as strong as the community.  In St. Louis they have bloomed and bloomed again for years, even is some pretty rough neighborhoods.  Each spring community leaders jump start them and get people involved, and it works.  In some places it does not.  Those are typically the same places where the community leaders don't work either, they just complain and demand things.  Any community initiative like this becomes a direct reflection of the community and a magnification of that community leader.

Let them not be judged by their acts, but by their actions.

[cannon_fodder]

Sometimes my sarcasm-o-meter just flat out fails.   

And I bet I could rip out a garden in 15 minutes to get it to "you can mow over this with your big-donkey mower" status.  Generally there would only be some wooden stakes, some chicken wire, and a few tomatoes cages to tear out.    But yes, I tend to be a cautious optimist... but I'm fairly manic so sometimes I'm a rabid pessimist. 

I make a hellofa sports fan.

[PonderInc]

Here's another interesting tidbit.  Councillor Henderson sent out a survey to some (not all) of his constituents, asking them about their thoughts on Community Gardens.

The questionnaire had two questions:

1)     Do you support Community Gardens?

2)     If so, do you feel neighbors should be asked to have input before
the community gardens are placed in their neighborhood?

I know that most of us are not professional survey writers.  It's both an art and a science...and very difficult to write a survey that does not ask leading questions.  As a result, I bet most people will say Yes to both questions. 

But the wording IS interesting.

Sure, who wouldn't want to have "input" about something going on in your neighborhood?  (I personally don't like that one remodel of the house down the street...I wish they'd asked for my input!)

I'm intrigued by the phrase:  "before the community gardens are placed in their neighborhood."

As if some evil third party is going to come in and PLACE community gardens in your neighborhood against your will!  Heck...it almost sounds like they're going to tear down your home and "place" one there!  And then force you to work in it!

One thing the survey doesn't ask:

"For those neighbors who would like to use their property as a community garden, do you think they should have to pay $700-1,000 to obtain a special exception to allow it?"

Interesting, eh?

For the record, the questionaire states:

Councilor Henderson's position at this time is that he does support
community gardens. However, he feels that neighbors should have input if
they want community gardens in their neighborhood. He needs your help,
and would like your opinion on the following questions...

So here's a survey where you can provide support for my pre-determined stance.

Hmmm...

[Gaspar]

You are absolutely correct, Ponder.  Spent a good deal of my life writing marketing surveys.  As I'm sure any lawyer on the forum will tell you, the way a question is asked can communicate a great deal about the answer that the inquisitor seeks. 


Ok, here's a technical analysis:
1) Do you support community gardens?

I think the answer to the first question will be about 98% YES because there is no other option given. 

The use of the words "Community" and "Garden" also beg for a positive response because they have positive meaning.  That is to say that people typically like communities, and they typically like gardens.

2)     If so, do you feel neighbors should be asked to have input before
the community gardens are placed in their neighborhood?

The answer to this question will be 100% yes because it is a "power" question.  Basically it is asking if people want to have a specific "right". 

It is obvious that the counselor has sent this survey to provide a basis for him to change his mind in such a way as to save face.  This is a good thing.  He's listening, he just needs the change in his position to be viewed as a service to his constituency rather than the reversal of a knee-jerk response.


I think we will see a statement like this in the next couple of weeks:

After a dialogue with my constituents, I am changing my position in favor of the community gardens project.  I still have concerns about the program, and my constituency has overwhelmingly indicated that they would want input before any such garden was placed in their neighborhood (shaking a stack of surveys in his hand), but at this time I am prepared to support the program if such input was included.

[PonderInc]

Neighbor input sounds reasonable... But what it means is that you'll have to apply for a special exception to plant a garden on your own land, if you want to invite your community to share in the work and the rewards of gardening.

Why force people to go through the BOA (or would it be the TMAPC?) to get a special exception...and pay $750-1,000 for the application and platting... just to do something good for your 'hood?  (Instead of spending that money on seeds, plants, lumber, etc...)

Especially for something that has already been so thouroughly vetted in the public realm...with overwhelming public support.  (Long before it got to the City Council, the proposal was amended to address neighbor concerns based on the feedback of neighborhoods via a very public process!) 

The outrage will be if the City Council ignores this fact:  the Community Garden "task force" and INCOG staff did a great job of advertising the proposal, meeting with the public, addressing concerns in open forums, adapting the proposal to address valid concerns from the community...and bringing forward a great proposal to enhance Tulsa.

If the Council can't respect that process, it will be telling. 

[Gaspar]

Neighbor input sounds reasonable... But what it means is that you'll have to apply for a special exception to plant a garden on your own land, if you want to invite your community to share in the work and the rewards of gardening.

Why force people to go through the BOA (or would it be the TMAPC?) to get a special exception...and pay $750-1,000 for the application and platting... just to do something good for your 'hood?  (Instead of spending that money on seeds, plants, lumber, etc...)

Especially for something that has already been so thouroughly vetted in the public realm...with overwhelming public support.  (Long before it got to the City Council, the proposal was amended to address neighbor concerns based on the feedback of neighborhoods via a very public process!) 

The outrage will be if the City Council ignores this fact:  the Community Garden "task force" and INCOG staff did a great job of advertising the proposal, meeting with the public, addressing concerns in open forums, adapting the proposal to address valid concerns from the community...and bringing forward a great proposal to enhance Tulsa.

If the Council can't respect that process, it will be telling. 

Yes, it certainly will.

[PonderInc]

Looks like the Obamas are going to start their own community garden at the White House.

The focus will be teaching people the value of good nutrition, fresh produce, locally grown, organic food, heirloom veggies, etc, etc.  In addition, the produce will also be used by the White House chefs.

The cost of seeds, mulch, etc for the 1,000 square foot garden?  Estimated at $200.

Quite a bit cheaper than the cost for a special exception in Tulsa, OK....



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/dining/19garden-web.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/19/AR2009031902886.html

[Gaspar]

I think that's a wonderful tradition for the Whitehouse to start.  Cheers to First Lady Obama.

[Townsend]

Looks like the Obamas are going to start their own community garden at the White House.

The focus will be teaching people the value of good nutrition, fresh produce, locally grown, organic food, heirloom veggies, etc, etc.  In addition, the produce will also be used by the White House chefs.

The cost of seeds, mulch, etc for the 1,000 square foot garden?  Estimated at $200.

Quite a bit cheaper than the cost for a special exception in Tulsa, OK....

So per our illustrious city councilor in the North, there is a good chance there will be pot plants intermingled with the marigolds in a matter of years on the White House lawn?

[cannon_fodder]

In addition to the drugs, don't forget the bums that will be attracted to the fresh produce.  And then there's the neglect.  Oh the humanity!  I wonder if the neighborhood had any input on this, it is the peoples house.

[FOTD]

Very cool....



White House to break ground on 'kitchen garden'
Darlene Superville, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 56 mins ago


AP –

First lady Michelle Obama is scheduled to break ground Friday on a new garden near the fountain on the South Lawn that will supply the White House kitchen.

She will be joined by students from Bancroft Elementary School in the District of Columbia. The children will stay involved with the project, including planting the fruits, vegetables and herbs in the coming weeks and harvesting the crops later in the year.

Mrs. Obama spent time earlier this week at an exhibit on rooftop gardening.

"We're going to get a big one in our back yard, the South Lawn," she promised the volunteers.

Such a White House garden has been a dream of noted California chef Alice Waters, considered a leader in the movement to encourage consumption of locally grown, organic food. She has been appealing for change through the taste buds since the 1960s.

She organized a series of fundraising dinners in Washington before President Barack Obama's inauguration in January that served foods purchased from local producers at an area farmer's market to show how it can be done.

Reached Thursday at her Berkeley, Calif., restaurant, Chez Panisse, Waters said she was thrilled by the news.

"It just tells you that this country cares about people's good health and about the care of the land," she said. "To have this sort of 'victory' garden, this message goes out that everyone can grow a garden and have free food."

Victory gardens were vegetable gardens planted during the world wars with encouragement from the government to make sure there was enough food for civilians and the troops. Waters says her family had such a garden.

Waters has been lobbying for a vegetable garden at the White House since 1992. Recent White Houses have grown some herbs and have practiced limited container gardening on the mansion's roof to supply it with tomatoes, peppers and other vegetables.

The new garden will be the first on the White House grounds in many decades, Waters said.

She said Michelle Obama always has been receptive to the idea.

"She talks about food in connection with children, and it's a beautiful thing," Waters said.

Waters also has pushed the administration to adopt her Edible Schoolyard project in which children plant their own produce to eat in the school cafeteria. Most public schools are serving too much processed food that is contributing to the childhood obesity epidemic, she argues.

___

Associated Press writers Nancy Benac and Mary Clare Jalonick contributed to this report.



AWESOME!!!!



http://whitehousefarmer.com/?page_id=349

[Gaspar]

In addition to the drugs, don't forget the bums that will be attracted to the fresh produce.  And then there's the neglect.  Oh the humanity!  I wonder if the neighborhood had any input on this, it is the peoples house.

Perhaps we should circulate a survey?

"Question 1: Do you support the Obama's being forced to grow their own food?"

[buckeye]

Visiting heads of state sit down to a fine dinner at the White House...

"How do you find the radishes?  Michelle [i.e. her community of $100k/yr need-to-know-clearance gardeners] grew them."

"They...how you say...taste like dirt."