Tulsa World sues Bates

[blindnil]

Joe .... doesn't it make a difference that UT and Bates didn't contact the World about his (false) information before he ran his column? Once that's printed, the newspaper had nothing left to do but sue.

Besides, the fact that it has been taken down off the UT Web site shows that they are no longer standing behind it.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by joe dolty

I just called and cancelled my subscription to the Tulsa World.  I told the operator that I refuse to support a company that would file a lawsuit without even talking to the parties involved and trying to settle ahead of time.

I'll never give them another penny either.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

For someone who hates the Tulsa World so much, you sure do post a lot in their comments section.

+1

[}:)]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by blindnil

Joe .... doesn't it make a difference that UT and Bates didn't contact the World about his (false) information before he ran his column? Once that's printed, the newspaper had nothing left to do but sue.

Besides, the fact that it has been taken down off the UT Web site shows that they are no longer standing behind it.

They took down both the online article as well as the PDF version of the entire issue. That doesn't bode well.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

For someone who hates the Tulsa World so much, you sure do post a lot in their comments section.

+1

[}:)]

not anymore he doesn't...or at least nothing you can see [}:)]...and if you can see it...well then [)] you too

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by blindnil

Joe .... doesn't it make a difference that UT and Bates didn't contact the World about his (false) information before he ran his column? Once that's printed, the newspaper had nothing left to do but sue.

Besides, the fact that it has been taken down off the UT Web site shows that they are no longer standing behind it.

They took down both the online article as well as the PDF version of the entire issue. That doesn't bode well.

Yeah, that is interesting.

I'm not sure that qill qualify as an admission, but I know the TW's attorneys will try to make it look that way.  UTW certainly isn't standing by their work.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by blindnil


Besides, the fact that it has been taken down off the UT Web site shows that they are no longer standing behind it.

I agree with your notion that once it is printed, the damage is already done.  However, taken down the disputed item was certainly at the bequest of their attorney.  One can never tell what a court will decide and remedial measures can never be held against you.  If it were held to be libel the fact that it remains available could be held as evidence of malice (even after we told them it was wrong, they kept it up!).  

Just sound business.  Perhaps one could argue they should stand on principle, but business usually comes first.  But taking it down says nothing about the merits of the article (which I am not in a position to comment on either).

[joe dolty]

I don't have to pay them to post so I'm going to keep doing that.  And I'm sure taking down their online version was at the request of their attorneys.

[Gold]

quote:Originally posted by joe dolty

I don't have to pay them to post so I'm going to keep doing that.  And I'm sure taking down their online version was at the request of their attorneys.

Can someone pay you not to post?

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

quote:Originally posted by joe dolty

I don't have to pay them to post so I'm going to keep doing that.  And I'm sure taking down their online version was at the request of their attorneys.

Can someone pay you not to post?

^^
[}:)]

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

For someone who hates the Tulsa World so much, you sure do post a lot in their comments section.

Joe is one of my heroes on the Tulsa World comments section. He has an opinion on everything.

[Double A]

I think I'll start calling businesses that advertise in the Whirled and inform them that they will never get my business as long as they advertise in the Whirled.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

I think I'll start calling businesses that advertise in the Whirled and inform them that they will never get my business as long as they advertise in the Whirled.

Why not? Hit them where it hurts.

[DowntownNow]

Michael Bate's column made the statement that...

"During the interim, the daily hired its own consultants to conduct market surveys and circulation estimates.  The steep drop between the paid consultant's March 2005 count and the March 2006 ABC numbers suggest that the World was inflating its circulation by as much as 20 percent."

The filed petition by the Tulsa World does not attach as exhibit the paid consultant's (Grant Thornton LLP) independantly signed audit for March 2005.  It does attach what appears to be an internal audit submitted without independent verification by the TW ownership, Lorton and Bair.  Further, Grant Thornton LLP may not have had to adhere to the same industry standard auditing practices established and utilized by ABC.  They do attach ABC's independent March 2006 audit numbers.  

For all the conversation in here regarding what is perceived to be fact or fiction by Bates and the UTW, I believe Bates is knowledgeable enough to not state anything that is not backed up by some numbers.  Journalists often have sources, perhaps a disgruntled former employee of the World provided him copy of that 2005 paid consultant's audit on which he "suggested" the inflation, perhaps not.  Bottom line is, we may not know his source until discovery, if even then.  

The World's petition also states that Bate's article made a "second false statement...that a steep drop in circulation was concealed by the Tulsa World from its advertisers."  Now, I've read that article four times and I can't find any statements that can be attributed to Bates  where he states in writing that the TW knowingly concealed a drop in circulation from it's advertisers.

The petition further goes on to state that it can be "implied" that the Tulsa World inflated its paid circulation numbers to intentionally mislead advertisers and cause advertisers to overpay the Tulsa World for advertising.  There may be an "implication" in the minds of the TW but there was never a statement of fact from Bates that this occurred.  

The petition also states that TW stopped utilizing the independent auditing services of ABC in 2000.  Bates suggests it was in 1997 but at the very least this is a factual error that the TW could have asked be corrected in the next issues of circulation, much like the TW itself has done on many an occassion when a material fact was not quite correct (i.e a name, date, position, etc).

As for the TW stating that this column was impugning its integrity...perhaps they should rethink that allegation and re-read some of their own editorial opinions and stories that seek to do the same of others on a weekly basis before over-reacting and making it the spectacle it has become.  

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

I think I'll start calling businesses that advertise in the Whirled and inform them that they will never get my business as long as they advertise in the Whirled.

I try to limit my anger at businesses who abuse their public good will by getting involved in politics or the petty arguments of media. For instance, I will not go to a certain coffee house that overtly involved herself in the river development controversy without noting that her motive involved the premise that money spent on the river would be money not spent downtown. I can't drop green there anymore than I would at a PETA conference.  

However, a business person buys advertising in a rather non partisan, profit making manner. Take all sides, or take no sides at all. When I see an advertiser using different media it makes sense to me. I don't begrudge the advertisers in UT or on Idiot Radio from trying to reach paying customers. But if that's all they use, and flaunt it as part of their persona, well,.... never shall I enter their world.