Who has the authority to fire INCOG?

[Limabean]

At the last city council meeting Coincilor Christiansen called for the citizens of Tulsa to come together and demand they have their own planning group?

Who has the ability to release INCOG from their contract? How would the citizens of Tulsa really be able to do such a thing?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

At the last city council meeting Coincilor Christiansen called for the citizens of Tulsa to come together and demand they have their own planning group?

Who has the ability to release INCOG from their contract? How would the citizens of Tulsa really be able to do such a thing?

It's the Council and the Mayor who have the authority to end the city's relationship with INCOG. It's as simple as not renewing their contract. Elections aren't that far off, the filling period for office is six months away, recruit, support, and elect candidates who will do this.

Precinct meetings for the Republican and Democratic Party County conventions are right around the corner, go to your precinct meetings and submit resolutions to your party platforms calling for an end to the INCOG contract and for Tulsa to do it's own planning. Get elected as a precinct officer, go to your respective party county convention, vote and lobby for it's passage. That should get the attention of candidates looking for party activists to support their campaigns. A resolution to get rid of INCOG was narrowly defeated at the last Tulsa County Democratic Party Convention, so getting it passed could be as simple as getting like minded individuals you know to go to their precinct meetings. I don't know when the Republicans hold their precinct meetings, but the Democratic Party will hold their precinct meetings on March 12 at 7:00 p.m. The Tulsa County Democratic Party Convention will be held on April 4.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Limabean

At the last city council meeting Coincilor Christiansen called for the citizens of Tulsa to come together and demand they have their own planning group?

Who has the ability to release INCOG from their contract? How would the citizens of Tulsa really be able to do such a thing?

but doesnt the city of tulsa already have a planning department?

[Limabean]

Whay hasn't there been any coverage about Christiansen at last Thursday's city council meeting calling for the release of INCOG from their contract?

Who would cover it? Michael Bates? The Tulsa World?

[brunoflipper]

settle down... that is how the forum rendered a "reply to" link... it was not me...


here, i'll make this simpler- the city already has its own planning department so shut the **** up already... go "demand" something else...

have at it...   city of tulsa planning department

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

settle down... that is how the forum rendered a "reply to" link... it was not me...


here, i'll make this simpler- the city already has its own planning department so shut the **** up already... go "demand" something else...

have at it...   city of tulsa planning department

that planning dept is just a paper tiger that puts forth planning proposals and comp plans.  As I already said anything related to planning has to go through TMAPC and then the council.

[sgrizzle]

The City Planning Department is woefully understaffed and underprioritized. In you nix incog, throw a dozen more employees at the planing department (and a big salary for one spot to get a good boss) and then you might be making some progress.

[PonderInc]

I get the feeling that INCOG isn't good at vision and planning.  They do OK at administering existing regulations/policies (though the PUD process reminds us that our zoning code is completely outdated and inadequate).  There are some very knowledgeable and helpful individuals who work for INCOG, so I won't paint the entire organization with a single brush.

I've also heard that certain federal transportation dollars have to come through INCOG (other cities have their COGs, too).  

I also agree that the city Planning Department IS woefully understaffed.  It would be amazing to see an adequately staffed Planning Department with a visionary Director....creating plans that get implimented, and not ignored.

One thing I don't understand is why neighborhood plans don't seem to have any "teeth."  Neighbors work with the Planning Department and come up with decent plans.  (Think Brady, Brookside, etc).  But then, whenever a developer wants to do something that doesn't fit with that plan, they just get a PUD and do whatever they want.  The TMAPC seems to ignore the Comp Plan b/c its "outdated" and the neighborhood plans are treated as nothing more than nice little "concepts."  What's the deal with that?

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I get the feeling that INCOG isn't good at vision and planning.  They do OK at administering existing regulations/policies (though the PUD process reminds us that our zoning code is completely outdated and inadequate).  There are some very knowledgeable and helpful individuals who work for INCOG, so I won't paint the entire organization with a single brush.

I've also heard that certain federal transportation dollars have to come through INCOG (other cities have their COGs, too).  

I also agree that the city Planning Department IS woefully understaffed.  It would be amazing to see an adequately staffed Planning Department with a visionary Director....creating plans that get implimented, and not ignored.

One thing I don't understand is why neighborhood plans don't seem to have any "teeth."  Neighbors work with the Planning Department and come up with decent plans.  (Think Brady, Brookside, etc).  But then, whenever a developer wants to do something that doesn't fit with that plan, they just get a PUD and do whatever they want.  The TMAPC seems to ignore the Comp Plan b/c its "outdated" and the neighborhood plans are treated as nothing more than nice little "concepts."  What's the deal with that?

I can't speak to all Neighborhood plans... But the ones that I have come across, just like area plans, are only adopted in a very small way into the Master Plan or Comp Plan.

Now that the Master Plan is being redone possibly more of the area or Neighborhood plans could be revisited and become a more binding, larger, factor in development..

I would like to see this but doubt that will be the case. Most of the officials that should know about all these plans are unaware of the original text or intent of same. Just the small portions "the Powers that be" have chosen to incorporate into the Master or Comp plan.

If I were Brookside or Pearl I would pay very close attention to the items, that will be included in the New Comp plan, that relate to their own plans.

I spoke with a fellow the other day that said he had a copy of a "Master Plan for Downtown and surrounding areas" penned by Jack Crowley... Dated 11-08


Maybe I have been sleeping at the wheel but I don't remember any of the Neighborhoods that are involved being told they had planned easements for this and that built into their deeds, or their future Neighborhood planning.

[Wrinkle]

One of the major reasons the City offloaded its' planning to INCOG is due to FOI requirements. If the city doesn't have a planning dept, there's no data to request. FOI doesn't apply to private entities.

Ever wonder how those overnight renderings of river projects and ballparks show up suddenly?

None of the works behind these things is available to the public prior to it being passed to the City.

For that reason alone, the City needs its' own planning. Besides all that, the City's planning needs are not necessarily the same, or even in sync with the 'region' all the time.

INCOG needs to coordinate with City Planning, not the other way around.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

One of the major reasons the City offloaded its' planning to INCOG is due to FOI requirements. If the city doesn't have a planning dept, there's no data to request. FOI doesn't apply to private entities.

Ever wonder how those overnight renderings of river projects and ballparks show up suddenly?

None of the works behind these things is available to the public prior to it being passed to the City.

For that reason alone, the City needs its' own planning. Besides all that, the City's planning needs are not necessarily the same, or even in sync with the 'region' all the time.

INCOG needs to coordinate with City Planning, not the other way around.

My understanding is that all of the information that is included in records established with the TMAPC and BOA via INCOG are subject to Freedom of Information requirements.  I've requested info. from them many times and have been told repeatedly that anything that has been submitted is part of a public record and available upon request.  

Now I've run into situations where a rendering or plan different from what was originally submitted with the application is presented to the decision making bodies at the last minute and that can be frustrating but I don't think that's within the control of INCOG.

Last time I checked INCOG is not part of the Ballpark development project.  The stadium trust has to go to the BOA in February to get a Special Exception and I've already seen the plans INCOG has on file for that application; it was pretty easy to get. I got them emailed to me by someone who got them emailed to her by the INCOG staff person.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

One of the major reasons the City offloaded its' planning to INCOG is due to FOI requirements. If the city doesn't have a planning dept, there's no data to request. FOI doesn't apply to private entities.

Ever wonder how those overnight renderings of river projects and ballparks show up suddenly?

None of the works behind these things is available to the public prior to it being passed to the City.

For that reason alone, the City needs its' own planning. Besides all that, the City's planning needs are not necessarily the same, or even in sync with the 'region' all the time.

INCOG needs to coordinate with City Planning, not the other way around.

My understanding is that all of the information that is included in records established with the TMAPC and BOA via INCOG are subject to Freedom of Information requirements.  I've requested info. from them many times and have been told repeatedly that anything that has been submitted is part of a public record and available upon request.  

Now I've run into situations where a rendering or plan different from what was originally submitted with the application is presented to the decision making bodies at the last minute and that can be frustrating but I don't think that's within the control of INCOG.

Last time I checked INCOG is not part of the Ballpark development project.  The stadium trust has to go to the BOA in February to get a Special Exception and I've already seen the plans INCOG has on file for that application; it was pretty easy to get. I got them emailed to me by someone who got them emailed to her by the INCOG staff person.

The last time I went to INCOG to request some simple digital line data, it felt as though I was interviewing for a job.

Then, was told they'd have an 'estimate' for me in a few days.

Truth be told, I don't specifically know how FOI affects them, but being a private entity would, I think, legally exclude them from compliance requirements, at least until something is made public. What the policy actually is is anyone's guess.

[Wrinkle]

quote: Last time I checked INCOG is not part of the Ballpark development project.  

Probably not, but way back in the initial planning process, I'd bet they were.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote: Last time I checked INCOG is not part of the Ballpark development project.  

Probably not, but way back in the initial planning process, I'd bet they were.

And you'd be wrong.

[Rico]

Let's get real about this....

The more "legally" predictable a plan becomes  the more it's facts are sought out.

This may not be an us vs. them issue....

It could be one builder developer vs. another.

And I have to agree with Wrinkle. There are at least a Million reasons that FOI doesn't reach all plans regarding the public.

Regardless of the fact that "taxpayers" dollars are at work.

("Tom, Tell Mike it was nothing personal....just business." Abe Vigoda Godfather part 1)