Pearl District Pork

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

YT, those "blighted" areas of today are the prime real estate development opportunities of the future. Bring a light rail system through the area on those tracks and create a stop right in the middle of the "blight" and presto -- transit oriented development. Those abandoned warehouses would be converted to lofts in a heartbeat.

A light rail mafia is born.

[MDepr2007]

So really what did Centenial Park do but cost us more for a new library to go with it and see a few other places remodel. Any new revenue come from it?

and yet we still wait for all that new dreamable developement downtown too.

[brunoflipper]

library? huh? im confuzzled...

[sgrizzle]

And MDepr's descent into complete nonsense is complete...

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

library? huh? im confuzzled...

So what is the building on the north side for?

[JoeMommaBlake]

The building is a community center. It has been nicknamed "the boathouse" because of its proximity to the pond.

There is a library several blocks away on Denver.

[TheArtist]

We can tell that someone hasnt gone to many public and civic meetings in the last few years. Dozens of them have been held there on all kinds of important local issues. Like this last one on the Pearl District Pork  as a small example lol.

[MDepr2007]

Ok I was wrong in my thinking of what the building was. So what has the new park really brought to the area that makes spending more money than is needed worth it?

[carltonplace]

Besides flood mitigation, new homes and business, increased property value, renewed interest in a blighted abandoned area, the possibility for a downtown to TU corridor, some pretty fountains and a new event center that is always in use, all payed for by people shopping at Home Depot?: Nothing.

You're right...let's get the bulldozers out and fill it back in.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

Ok I was wrong in my thinking of what the building was. So what has the new park really brought to the area that makes spending more money than is needed worth it?

Wait no - this is a valid question.  Why not just have a utilitarian detention pond without the extra landscaping?  It would both serve the goal of flood mitigation and cost the city less money, both in original construction cost and upkeep.

The answer, I think, lies at the heart of civic choice.  When you're faced with projects like flood mitigation in the Pearl District, there are two ways to go about it.  1) You can get the job done in the most efficient way possible with no regard for any purpose other than the necessary. Or, 2) You can spend extra money to attempt to provide benefits from the project on the side.

In this case, the city chose number two.  Beautiful parks are certainly a public good.  They may not be a functional requirement for public infrastructure, but they raise the level for quality of life and city aesthetics.  These are concerns that have real value and are worth monetizing.

Plus, I think there is a fiscally conservative case to be made for this sort of infrastructure work.  I view it in terms of marginal cost.  

Say the floodwater detention work costs the city 10x.

Say a new park typically costs the city 6x.

Say a floodwater detention project combined with a new park costs the city 12x.  

There are two ways to look at this picture.  In strict functionality terms, a lovely park is not a necessary part of civic infrastructure.  So the city could take care of flood mitigation for 10x instead of 12x if it so chose.

BUT- the other way to look at the picture is in terms of marginal value.  By spending 12x on flood mitigation + lovely park, instead of 10x on flood mitigation, the city actually SAVES 4x.  Because to build the park and mitigate flooding separately would cost the city 16x.  

I view the Pearl project as effective stewardship by the City of Tulsa.  If you've got the bulldozers there and you're turning earth, you may as well spend the money now on the margins to make the end result beautiful.  

Really, it's a bargain.

[joiei]

Plus there is a farmers market there now during growing season and to take a walk around the park is fun.  Unlike some of the paths around some of the retention ponds in the east side of Tulsa.

[TheArtist]

Well put Floyd.

[MDepr2007]

So quality of life only equalled more soccer fields and walking trails along the edge for those in east Tulsa... poor saps

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

So quality of life only equalled more soccer fields and walking trails along the edge for those in east Tulsa... poor saps

Better than nothing, even those are used as good examples of how cities can multipurpose their water retention and control facilities. Cities from all over the country come to Tulsa to see the progressive things we have done on this front. Though the Central Park project wasnt the right size and such to have soccer fields in it, the park was definitely a nice touch. Will be just as nice and treasured as Woodward Park in the future when the plants get a few more years growth on them and the area around it continues to improve. And yes, I hope with the new Master Plan that we start paying even more attention to getting nice redevelopment nodes going in some areas which could use it in the East side of the city. That side could use some pork as well.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by MDepr2007

So quality of life only equalled more soccer fields and walking trails along the edge for those in east Tulsa... poor saps

Maybe they bought your argument.

But no, the areas out east were more interested at that time in mitigating flood damage. They had recently had floods. The solutions they employed were considered pretty novel at the time as well as the idea to utilize the land for soccer fields and paths. It was a start.

Your enmity towards this park and the Pearl plan is not reasonable. Its a good idea, its being developed with thoughtful insights and the return will be good. You should be ecstatic that we are reclaiming a part of the Tulsa core. The last flood prone area of town to receive mitigation and you're complaint is...what?