Fire Consumes Skyscraper, It does not collapse

[altruismsuffers]

This is a little more broad but maybe NIST did not find any evidence of explosions because they did not look?  9/11 commission did not allow testimony of 503 first responders, so why would NIST explore this avenue?  
25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.

9/11 Commission Report bars 503 1st responder eyewitnesses

EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY! / MacQueen NYFD 9/11 witnesses

[cannon_fodder]

I'll take that as a no.

The onus of proof is not on the person bringing forth the new proposition.  I have a little teapot I could tell you about if you don't understand.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers


25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.

Eyewitnesses are often wrong. IMO, a person's offhand observation is best used to corroborate physical evidence.

[MDepr2007]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers


25% of first responders claimed to hear or see explosions or bombs.

Eyewitnesses are often wrong. IMO, a person's offhand observation is best used to corroborate physical evidence.

Take the suspected van involved in the Swenney murder for instance.

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I'll take that as a no.

The onus of proof is not on the person bringing forth the new proposition.  I have a little teapot I could tell you about if you don't understand.

I am bringing forth your evidence which actually takes time to comb through, watch and think about.  Are you doing these things?  

Add this to your list:  Blueprint For Truth

[cannon_fodder]

Frankly, no. I'm not.   The NIST, Popular Science, MIT, and the rest of the experts are enough for me.  I applaud you for looking into it, but unless every major source of expertise in this area is in on it then there is no grand conspiracy.  And frankly, I doubt that many people could be in on it without it coming ot light.

The basic question of WHY doesn't even work out.  Faking 4 hijackings and destroying WTC1 and 2 wasn't enough to do whatever they wanted?  

If it was a financial scam then was it Silverstein or the Port Authority that was in on it?  The buildings weren't owned by the same people... adding ANOTHER level of complexity.   it quickly grows too big to be a serious concern.  

Bush as a criminal mastermind is another roll that is hard to cast.

The sniff test fails.  The experts disagree.   Not worth further discussion. Because a fringe group keeps saying it, doesn't make it so.  Basically, you'll cling to anything and ignore anything if it helps your argument.  You are not after the "truth,"  you are out to prove a conspiracy.  Anything short of that is not acceptable.

(ever wonder why the same people generally believe in all the fringe ideas?  Hint:  logic says it's not because they are right on all these issues while everyone else is wrong.)

[Hometown]

Altruismsuffers, I have not followed your threads closely and because I really don't understand your position on 9/11 I have a simple question for you.  Without using links to make your point, can you briefly describe what you believe happened on 9/11?  I would appreciate it if you would take the time to tell us what "you" have come to believe after hearing all of these different viewpoints.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

Those were Chinese built scrapers, which are of much higher quality than the garbage we build in this country.

quote:Originally posted by altruismsuffers

I have one question, how does WTC 7 fall from "Thermal Expansion", and this building burned outright and did not collapse?  

Fire Consumes WTC 7 Size Skyscraper

"NIST!!! You have some splainin to do!!!"

[]

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Altruismsuffers, I have not followed your threads closely and because I really don't understand your position on 9/11 I have a simple question for you.  Without using links to make your point, can you briefly describe what you believe happened on 9/11?  I would appreciate it if you would take the time to tell us what "you" have come to believe after hearing all of these different viewpoints.

If you take a look throughout history false flag terror has been used to scare people into submission.  Nero allowed Rome to burn, Hitler burned his own Reichtag, The USS Liberty was attacked by allied forces (Israel), The Lusitania, The Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor, and now 9/11.  

If you take the time to study these past events you will see that many of them did not happen the way the "official" stories suggest.  If you look at who stands to benefit in these circumstances and who had there hands in funding and profiting you will see many of the large banks had a large stake.  

Now if you go and research the bankers who own 98% of the wealth on earth and what they intend to do with their power you will see that they very openly promote a "New World Order" that they would control.  You can't just come out and tell people that you want to control them so you have to secretly and with subversion gain control and effect change "behind the curtain" if you will.  
Why do you think that Bush (who is just a puppet) named Iraq, Iran, North Korea and Syria as the "Axis of Evil"?   Well just so happened those were some of the only countries left that don't have a central bank, they are not directly controlled by the elitist banking cartel.  

So now they are in the process of blowing out the dollar (yes they are intentionally destroying it, that's why 60 billion of it is missing and our officials DO NOTHING and Obama wants to burn through 800 Billion more) It is not just our economy in trouble, France, England and other major countries are doing the exact same bailout bull****.  This is leveling the playing field, bringing everyone to their knees so they (bankers) can present the solution (Problem Reaction Solution) which is a new world or regional currency(North American Currency like the Euro).  

Anyways the end goal is to have us all as slaves, chip and track us all and have complete power.  The sad thing is most of the saps reading this wont believe it and happily except their fate.  

Now of course I could link to quotes and documents but you asked for no links, so I leave it at that.  Now I don't expect anyone to read this and go "oh yea, he is right!"  Lets be real, you have to take an interest and actually study this stuff, study the history, study the banks, study the people, and be open minded to something very different then what you were taught in school.

[Hometown]

Altruismsuffers, Thank you for responding to my question.  I have to say that stranger things have happened that the scenario you outlined but I'm not inclined to agree with you.  I'll tell you why.  

The kind of conspiracy you are describing would involve the participation to a great many people.  Based on my experience with human nature I would say that it would be impossible for that many people to keep a secret.  

9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.  

For its part, the Bush Administration completely dropped the ball on National Security.  And that Administration's overreaction to 9/11 was largely a matter of their sense of guilt for dropping the ball and an attempt to shift blame.

Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington.  If we didn't, then I'll say that we should have.  I believe it would be possible to keep a limited number of U.S. Military personnel sworn to secrecy.

I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies.  Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas.

That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.  But, it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful.  I grew up in Tulsa and we want to believe in what we are told.

[rwarn17588]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown


That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.

No, we dismiss the notion of a conspiracy because of the lack of any credible evidence. That shows common sense, not a lack of sophistication.

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Altruismsuffers, Thank you for responding to my question.  I have to say that stranger things have happened that the scenario you outlined but I'm not inclined to agree with you.  I'll tell you why.  

The kind of conspiracy you are describing would involve the participation to a great many people.  Based on my experience with human nature I would say that it would be impossible for that many people to keep a secret.  

9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia.  

For its part, the Bush Administration completely dropped the ball on National Security.  And that Administration's overreaction to 9/11 was largely a matter of their sense of guilt for dropping the ball and an attempt to shift blame.

Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington.  If we didn't, then I'll say that we should have.  I believe it would be possible to keep a limited number of U.S. Military personnel sworn to secrecy.

I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies.  Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas.

That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.  But, it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful.  I grew up in Tulsa and we want to believe in what we are told.

I am glad we can actually have a civil discussion no matter how far fetched some may think it seems.  Thank you.

Now as for the secrecy, the problem is most people involved are either

1.) Unaware they are involved, like most people and don't believe in conspiracies and are just "following orders" (There were "training exercises" going on 9/11)
2.) Talking but nobody is listening because the media is owned and operated by 5 major corporations that pay them no attention.
3.) Dead or incapacitated
4.) Too scared to step out of line and speak, they know there place (IE. all of congress who give our money to banks that don't tell us a word of what they are doing with it)

"9/11 was the result of the Arab World hating the United States for its support of Israel and because of the U.S. presence in their Holy Land, Saudi Arabia."

 I agree that this was the excuse.  The problem is that our American government tried to stifle an investigation.  Then the families persisted, the government formed a committee with an insider like Kissinger as the head (he stepped down after the families expressed outrage)  At the same time OUR GOVERNMENT is fighting an investigation they are playing "Snatch and Grab" with our civil liberties while everyone is terrified.  Now they openly admit to have military brigades in the united states and are in the process of building FEMA camps on old military bases for the purpose of control during emergency situations or "civil unrest"  Who is the real enemy here?

"Now, I believe we probably shot down Flight 93 to protect Washington."

I agree, I think this was something the military did good, that was not supposed to happen.  Rumsfeld says Flight 93 was shot down

"I would say that overall our greatest problem is not conspiracies.  Our greater problem is a consensus of belief, among a majority of people, forming around wrong headed beliefs and ideas."

I agree again

"it was a revelation for me to learn that everything I read in the newspaper or saw on TV was not truthful."

It was for me as well.  My first "wake up" was in College.  My professor asked us what we thought about the standoff at Waco.  We gave the news scripted answers we all heard over and over again.
-David Koresh, crazy cult leader
-Fortified Compound
-Stocking illegal weapons and raping children
-They killed themselves rather then be captured

He wrote this all on the board then showed us a movie,  
Waco: The Rules of Engagement, it absolutely blew my mind.  This movie provides hard evidence that the official story was extremely exaggerated if not an out right lie.  From that day forward I began to rethink reality.

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

quote:Originally posted by Hometown


That educated folks here at TulsaNow dismiss any notion of conspiracy outright displays their lack of sophistication.

No, we dismiss the notion of a conspiracy because of the lack of any credible evidence. That shows common sense, not a lack of sophistication.

Conspiracy Theory:  a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful.

The Gulf of Tonkin is largely know as the event that led to escalation in Vietnam.  This event never happened.  People conspired to sell a fake story to escalate the war, this was a conspiracy, it is a fact.  From the NSA declassified report

"it is not simply that there is a different story as to what happened; it is that no attack happened that night.... In truth, Hanoi's navy was engaged in nothing that night but the salvage of two of the boats damaged on 2 August."

[Hometown]

What satisfaction is there for you in carrying this message to the people here at TulsaNow?  Let's say that five years from now we learn that certain elements of your claim are true.  Do you think anyone here will have the memory or the character to step forward and say "I was wrong.  That Altruismsuffers was right."  That's probably never going to happen.

There is no satisfaction in being right.  It's not fun to be razzed by the smoke-hole crowd because you believe in something out of the ordinary.  Why submit yourself to the abuse?

[altruismsuffers]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

What satisfaction is there for you in carrying this message to the people here at TulsaNow?  Let's say that five years from now we learn that certain elements of your claim are true.  Do you think anyone here will have the memory or the character to step forward and say "I was wrong.  That Altruismsuffers was right."  That's probably never going to happen.

There is no satisfaction in being right.  It's not fun to be razzed by the smoke-hole crowd because you believe in something out of the ordinary.  Why submit yourself to the abuse?

Ha ha, well I am sure to your surprise most of America are as clueless, so the responses I get on here are not much different then the ones I get face to face.  As Martin Luther King said, "There comes a time when silence is betrayal".  I share this message because I feel it is important and even if people don't soak it up now, it has entered their consciousness and will hopefully help them "wake up" in the future.  I post on here in hopes that someone will study the things I say for themselves.  People have these belief systems that have been molded over their entire lifetime and much of their information comes from public school, or the TV.  This makes for a lifetime of brain washing (that is ongoing), and it takes time to dismantle someones entire false belief system.  I mean their was truly a time in which if you claimed the earth was round you would be hanged!  Just goes to show the power of "belief".   Plus I get good practice defending what I believe which makes me dig a little more and understand the picture a little better.