Nuclear Power Plants

[nathanm]

Some interesting simulations there.  Interesting how we have gone from required triple redundancy in past to only double on this reactor.  That must mean they re much safer now.

I guess you don't consider the passive cooling system to be part of the redundancy?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Also, that's about $6.36 per watt installed cost of generation.

Solar in 1998 was $10.73 per watt.
By 2010 it was $7.16 per watt.
2011 it is $6.40 per watt.  All residential.

Commercial scale is running $5.20 per watt installed (2011)

And utility scale is $3.75 per watt installed (2011).

So at today's prices, the nuke will be over 1.5 times the cost out the door.  Not counting fuel costs, which with the Federal subsidies, it is said that cost might be kept to as low as 6 or 7 cents per kwh - which hides the true cost of the subsidy in the Federal budget.  The already experienced history of nukes would put it closer to 25 - 30 cents per kwh.

And none of that cost estimate includes spent fuel disposal or decommissioning of the plant.


http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/12/25/394663/solar-grid-parity-101/?mobile=nc

Solar has reached and gone way beyond parity to nookkular.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I guess you don't consider the passive cooling system to be part of the redundancy?

Wasn't clear - the two pumps versus three they are talking about.  The reactors I worked with required 3 pumps in every situation for triple redundancy.  The only problem was, I guess nobody told them that the pumps absolutely HAD to be installed in forward position - NOT reversed - so that when the unit overheated, the pumps pumped backwards.

Actually, not quite backwards - centrifugal pumps do pump forward when installed backwards - it is at a much reduced rate.  So instead of say 100 gallons per minute, you might only get 10 - 15 gallons per minute.  Varies by pump.


The passive scheme they are talking about actually looks very good.  Very well thought out.  I think Westinghouse has done an excellent job with that design.  If ya gotta have nukes, that one may be the one to have.

[nathanm]

The passive scheme they are talking about actually looks very good.  Very well thought out.  I think Westinghouse has done an excellent job with that design.  If ya gotta have nukes, that one may be the one to have.

There are far better ones. And in an environment of increasing solar and wind usage without accompanying transmission upgrades, the extra expense of nuclear is the price we pay for not burning coal or gas for base load generation. Even if solar was totally free, we'd still need something else to make up for the times the sun isn't shining.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should have solar panels on almost every building, but even when that day comes we'll still need to do something when it's dark out.

[heironymouspasparagus]

There are far better ones. And in an environment of increasing solar and wind usage without accompanying transmission upgrades, the extra expense of nuclear is the price we pay for not burning coal or gas for base load generation. Even if solar was totally free, we'd still need something else to make up for the times the sun isn't shining.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should have solar panels on almost every building, but even when that day comes we'll still need to do something when it's dark out.

I would like to see some better designs - am very interested in this kind of stuff for smaller scale operations in heating/cooling.  This kind of "no pump" moving of heat should be adaptable to smaller setups.  Have you got some references you could send?


Grid upgrades;
As mentioned repeatedly, we would eliminate the need for about 15% of the "extra capacity" that is said to be needed now just by cutting the losses through the wires in half - double the size of the conductors.  We lose approximately 30% now just shipping the power around.  That means 1 out of every 3 power plants is just sitting there doing nothing productive - just heating up the air - a complete waste.

And yet, $14 billion for a couple of nukes is more "efficient" than adding wire to the grid in that area?  Yeah...right...


Solar;
Absolutely!  And as I have said many times before - no one is saying, nor has ever said, that solar (or wind) is the only power needed.  Just as coal or natural gas are neither sufficient unto themselves to provide all power.  A truly balanced approach, like Germany is working on.

[Conan71]

I would like to see some better designs - am very interested in this kind of stuff for smaller scale operations in heating/cooling.  This kind of "no pump" moving of heat should be adaptable to smaller setups.  Have you got some references you could send?

Simple. One pipe and two pipe low pressure steam systems, been in use for 150 or so years.  Steam rises, condenses, and gravity flows back to the boiler.  There are also eductor systems you can set up for hydronic heating loops and make them pump-less. 

[nathanm]

Solar;
Absolutely!  And as I have said many times before - no one is saying, nor has ever said, that solar (or wind) is the only power needed.  Just as coal or natural gas are neither sufficient unto themselves to provide all power.  A truly balanced approach, like Germany is working on.

Less coal, please. They collectively far exceed the amount of radioactive releases that have come from fission plants, even including Chernobyl and Fukushima. They just do it a little bit at a time. I'm OK with natural gas in principle, but the price is often so volatile that it's a bit problematic.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Less coal, please. They collectively far exceed the amount of radioactive releases that have come from fission plants, even including Chernobyl and Fukushima. They just do it a little bit at a time. I'm OK with natural gas in principle, but the price is often so volatile that it's a bit problematic.

That touches on a post in a different thread that I am still working on now.  The "Obama regulations" that are destroying this country - not.  There will be an answer to Gaspar soon on that.  The basic idea is that he (and the extreme right) say that to add controls to take mercury out of the exhaust is gonna cost too much.  We shall see.


The solar example I mentioned works for coal plants, too.  Gonna be cheaper to do solar than to add nukes.  (Or most likely coal.)

Oh, and the example didn't even touch the cost of nuke fuel.  Which has skyrocketed by a factor of 10 or so in the last few years.  Previously - quite a while ago - I showed the cost of uranium ore going from about $40 to 400  -ish.

[Teatownclown]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204369404577211811642379038.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The Fukushima Daiichi accident in March itself took out important nuclear reactors and since then, public opposition to any restarts has meant more of the nation's 54 nuclear reactors remain idled when shut down for their periodic maintenance checks.


Only three units are now operating and even those will be shut down as early as April. On Monday, Japan said the average nuclear power capacity used for power generation in January was 10.3%.

Japan's screwed....

[Teatownclown]

We're all screwed...

Published on Tuesday, April 3, 2012 by Common Dreams
Fukushima Radiation Moving Steadily Across Pacific
Concentrated levels found as scientists sample the Pacific for signs of Fukushima
Teams of scientists have already found debris and levels of radiation far off the coast of Japan, one year after the nuclear disaster at Fukushima. Reports are now suggesting that nuclear radiation has traveled at a steady pace. That contaminated debris and marine life could reach the US coast as soon as one year from now, depending on ocean currents.


A sample of copepods taken during a June 2011 cruise aboard the R/V Ka'imikai-O-Kanaloa off the northeast coast of Japan. (Ken Kostel, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution)
Radiation from Fukushima's nuclear disaster is appearing in concentrated levels in sea creatures and ocean water up to 186 miles off of the coast of Japan. The levels of radiation are 'hundreds to thousands of times higher than would be expected naturally' according to Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI). Researchers are questioning how the radioactive accumulation on the seafloor will effect the marine ecosystem in the future.


"What this means for the marine environment of the Northwest Pacific over the long term is something that we need to keep our eyes on," said the WHOI.

* * *

Fukushima Radiation Tracked Across Pacific Ocean (Live Science):

"We saw a telephone pole," study leader Ken Buesseler, a marine chemist and oceanographer at WHOI, told LiveScience. "There were lots of chemical plants. A lot of stuff got washed into the ocean."

The Tohoku earthquake and tsunami of March 11, 2011, led to large releases of radioactive elements from the Fukushima Dai-ichi power plants into the Pacific Ocean. To find out how that radiation spread in the waters off Japan, in June researchers released "drifters" — small monitoring devices that move with the current and take measurements of the surrounding water.

The drifters are tracked via GPS, showing the direction of currents over a period of about five months. Meanwhile, the team also took samples of zooplankton (tiny floating animals) and fish, measuring the concentration of radioactive cesium in the water.

Small amounts of radioactive cesium-137, which takes about 30 years for half the material to decay (called its half-life), would be expected in the water, largely left over from atmospheric nuclear tests in the 1960s and the Chernobyl accident in 1986. But the expedition scientists found nearly equal parts of both cesium-137 and cesium-134, which has a half-life of only two years. Any "naturally" occurring cesium-134 would be long gone. [...]

The team also looked at the amounts of cesium isotopes in the local sea life, including zooplankton, copepods (tiny crustaceans), shrimp and fish. They found both cesium-137 and cesium-134 in the animals, sometimes at concentrations hundreds of times that of the surrounding water. Average radioactivity was about 10 to 15 Bq per kilogram, depending on whether it was zooplankton or fish (concentrations were lowest in the fish).


An international research team is reporting the results of a research cruise they organized to study the amount, spread, and impacts of radiation released into the ocean from the tsunami-crippled reactors in Fukushima, Japan. The group of 17 researchers and technicians from eight institutions spent 15 days at sea in June 2011 studying ocean currents, and sampling water and marine organisms up to the edge of the exclusion zone around the reactors.

Led by Ken Buesseler, a senior scientist and marine chemist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), the team found that the concentration of several key radioactive substances, or radionuclides, were elevated but varied widely across the study area, reflecting the complex nature of the marine environment. In addition, although levels of radioactivity in marine life sampled during the cruise were well below levels of concern for humans and the organisms themselves, the researchers leave open the question of whether radioactive materials are accumulating on the seafloor sediments and, if so, whether these might pose a long-term threat to the marine ecosystem. The results appear in the online edition of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

"Our goal was to provide an independent assessment of what the Japanese were reporting and also to get further off shore to sample in places where we thought the currents would be carrying most of the radionuclides," said Buesseler. "We also wanted to provide as wide ranging a look as possible at potential impacts on the marine system to give a better idea of what was going on in the region, but also to provide a stronger baseline from which to measure future changes." [...]

Another open question is why radiation levels in the waters around Fukushima have not decreased since the Japanese stopped emergency cooling operations. According to Buesseler, it may be an indication that the ground surrounding the reactors has become saturated with contaminated water that is slowly seeping out in to the ocean. It may also be a sign that radionuclides in ocean sediments have become remobilized.

"What this means for the marine environment of the Northwest Pacific over the long term is something that we need to keep our eyes on," said Buesseler.

The day the tsunami hit Fuckishima, I quit eating fish....good instincts.

[Teatownclown]

Fukushima radiation found in California kelp

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/08/BAO51O00HO.DTL



Kelp off California was contaminated with short-lived radioisotopes a month after Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant accident, a sign that the spilled radiation reached the state's coastline, according to a new scientific study.

Scientists from CSU Long Beach tested giant kelp collected off Orange County, Santa Cruz and other locations after the March 2011 accident and detected radioactive iodine, which was released from the damaged nuclear reactor.

The largest concentration was about 250 times higher than levels found in kelp before the accident.

great bucking technology....

[nathanm]

So what was the level before and what is the level after? 250 times one atom of radioactive iodine per pound of kelp is still not much.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, at least the Coast Guard got some gunnery practice from the earthquake!  Got to sink a ship!

[Conan71]

How do we know for sure this came from Fukishima and not an accidental release out west or an earlier, unknown release from elsewhere in the Pacific rim?

As Paul Harvey would say, "Here's the rest of the story:"

The radioactivity had no known effects on the giant kelp, or on fish and other marine life, and it was undetectable a month later.

Iodine 131 "has an eight-day half-life, so it's pretty much all gone," Manley said. "But this shows what happens half a world away does effect what happens here. I don't think these levels are harmful, but it's better if we don't have it at all."

Spread in large, dense, brown forests across the ocean off California, giant kelp is the largest of all algae and grows faster than virtually any other life on Earth. It accumulates iodine, making it a useful way to check how far radioactive material spreads.

"Kelp forests are some of the most productive ecosystems on Earth," he said. "One thing about (kelp) is it has a large surface canopy," which means it is continually exposed to the air and whatever contaminants are in it.

In addition, giant kelp concentrates radioactive iodine - for every 1 molecule in the water, there would be 10,000 in its tissues.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/07/BAO51O00HO.DTL#ixzz1re4GRnj8

[Teatownclown]

Reactor Designer Admits That Fukushima Is Now the China Syndrome

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2011-11-20/reactor-designer-admits-that-fukushima-is-now-the-china-syndrome/

The China Syndrome is happening right now, according to Haruo Uehara, the man who designed Reactor 3 at Fukushima. He says that, since there has been no significant improvement since the earthquake and tsunami devastated the TEPCO nuclear plant on 11 March this year, there is no escaping the reality that hot fuel melted through the pressure and container vessels into the ground. Uehara further described the seriousness of the situation, saying if it reaches an underground water source, then the water supply, the ground, and sea water will also be contaminated. Furthermore, if the underground water remains heated for long enough, a massive hydrovolcanic explosion could occur. Hydrovolcanic is not a made-up word to give an impression of a big eruption involving water. It's a geological term referencing particularly violent volcanic eruptions involving the mixture of water with magma. This is not a small, or even simply a local, concern. In an exceptionally active volcanic region, a hydrovolcanic explosion could have devastating and far-reaching effects. Adding to the danger, he also said that radioactive debris has been spreading in the Pacific Ocean and that it had reached the Marshall Islands on 15 November 2011, which is much faster than anticipated. Therefore, all countries and islands in and around the Pacific are at risk from the flotsam of Fukushima. The term, China Syndrome, comes from a 1979 hit movie in which the unthinkable—a nuclear meltdown—almost happens. Now, it appears that the unthinkable, something so terrifying that the movie stopped short of it, has actually happened. Why isn't this major news? Well, just take a look at the video just posted, Want Proof That Mainstream Media Is Controlled? Watch This! The powers-that-be do not want us to know. Therefore, since there hasn't been any good news, we're given no news.

Meanwhile, make fun of Obama....