Oklahoma House Votes to Throw Out Minor Offending Illegals

[Hoss]

Interesting. Is your precinct heavily Democratic or something?

Down in the southern wasteland I walked in, claimed to be who I really am and voted. (after effing up a ballot and getting a new one..it was one of those days)

In Arkansas a few years ago they implemented a new requirement that you have to either show ID or another proof of identity (basically any bill or document from the government with your name on it) either at the time of registration or the first time you vote. After that, you can vote with or without ID, although they do mark "No ID" next to your name in the big book if you don't have your registration card or your ID with you when you vote.

That seems reasonable to me. An ID requirement each time you vote is unreasonable and mainly serves to prevent the poor from voting.

I don't think there's a precinct anywhere in Oklahoma that's 'heavily democratic'.  Unless you consider 37 percent (just a made up number people) heavy....oh, wait a minute, this is Oklahoma.  10 percent democratic might be considered 'heavily democratic'....

[Hoss]

Interesting. Is your precinct heavily Democratic or something?

Down in the southern wasteland I walked in, claimed to be who I really am and voted. (after effing up a ballot and getting a new one..it was one of those days)

In Arkansas a few years ago they implemented a new requirement that you have to either show ID or another proof of identity (basically any bill or document from the government with your name on it) either at the time of registration or the first time you vote. After that, you can vote with or without ID, although they do mark "No ID" next to your name in the big book if you don't have your registration card or your ID with you when you vote.

That seems reasonable to me. An ID requirement each time you vote is unreasonable and mainly serves to prevent the poor from voting.

Didn't say they asked for ID's.  They asked for our voter registration cards.  Which they have full right to do at any time.  They had signs out front saying to have them out before you got to the table.  This was Tulsa County precinct 40 (Lindbergh Elementary).

[nathanm]

Didn't say they asked for ID's.  They asked for our voter registration cards.  Which they have full right to do at any time.  They had signs out front saying to have them out before you got to the table.  This was Tulsa County precinct 40 (Lindbergh Elementary).

That's still jacked. I didn't think Oklahoma had a requirement to show your registration card when you voted.

[Hoss]

That's still jacked. I didn't think Oklahoma had a requirement to show your registration card when you voted.

I don't know that they have a requirement, but I'm guessing that it's well within the law to do so.

[nathanm]

I don't know that they have a requirement, but I'm guessing that it's well within the law to do so.

Generally speaking, if the law doesn't require it, it's not allowed when it comes to elections.

And it just occurred to me why even requiring a registration card is a bad idea. If you were to lose yours, would you really notice until election day or a couple of days before? Most people probably wouldn't. Even if you were to go in person, as I understand it, you can't be issued a new card within 25 days of an election in Oklahoma.

The states that allow registration on the day of the election at the precinct don't seem to be having big issues, so what problem exactly are laws like these solving?

Edited to add: And the proponents saying "oh, you can vote a provisional ballot"? Um, way to pretend like you're counting someone's vote when you're not. A person who didn't have ID would then have to procure said ID and take it to the election board office by whatever deadline they set. (which would be prior to 1pm on the Friday after the election, since the investigation of provisional ballots must be completed by that time)

Besides, a nefarious person could just claim to have been recently discharged or on leave from the military and they get to vote a provisional ballot that is by law counted without investigation.

[Chicken Little]

Oklahoma has a $900 billion dollar deficit?

$900 MILLION shortfall. 

[jamesrage]

90-0.  Good riddance:

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=9983562

I think Illegals should serve their time behind bars just like any other person convicted of the same crime would. I say deport their donkey after they serve their time,this ensures that they know that that will not get away with criminal acts other that illegal immigration.Heck they should serve some prison time for violating our immigration laws. Punishment for breaking the law should not be be just a free trip home. Mexico,Canada, and other countries are not going to care if their citizens have committed crimes in our country.

[jamesrage]

Voter ID is moving forward:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=298&articleid=20090311_298_0_OKLAHO123585

This I can agree with.Because of the fact they do not check IDs it opens up elections to voter fraud. It is a load of nonsense to say Oh what about the very few people who may not have an ID,if they really value their right to vote and really value the democratic process they will go and fork out $10 to get an ID card to help ensure the whole democratic system is not open to fraud. Ten dollars is not a lot of money.

[guido911]

This I can agree with.Because of the fact they do not check IDs it opens up elections to voter fraud. It is a load of nonsense to say Oh what about the very few people who may not have an ID,if they really value their right to vote and really value the democratic process they will go and fork out $10 to get an ID card to help ensure the whole democratic system is not open to fraud. Ten dollars is not a lot of money.

It's the old "poll tax" argument. Incidentally, as many probably know, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that voter id laws are constitutional. 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/scotus.voter.id/

The interesting thing about the opinion is that Justice Stevens jumped ship and voted with the righties on the court.

[nathanm]

This I can agree with.Because of the fact they do not check IDs it opens up elections to voter fraud. It is a load of nonsense to say Oh what about the very few people who may not have an ID,if they really value their right to vote and really value the democratic process they will go and fork out $10 to get an ID card to help ensure the whole democratic system is not open to fraud. Ten dollars is not a lot of money.

Can you actually cite examples of widespread election fraud or are you just spouting nonsense?

Ironically, accidental fraud is incredibly common. As in people forgetting to change their registration and voting in the wrong school district or city council election. Why is it that the legislature sees fit to solve a problem that doesn't exist rather than a problem that is in fact an issue?

And again, I hope you don't suddenly realize the day of the election that your license is expired or that you lost it. It's not just about the money.

[jamesrage]

Can you actually cite examples of widespread election fraud or are you just spouting nonsense?

Last time I checked the city does not send you a notification in the mail weeks after an election is over detailing what you voted for and they do not check IDs.So how is one supposed to gather proof that any fraud in this regard has happened? The lack of evidence is not proof that wrong doing has not occurred. Therefore is it is nonsense to be asking for such proof when there is no way to determine or gather evidence that fraud has occurred.

And again, I hope you don't suddenly realize the day of the election that your license is expired or that you lost it. It's not just about the money.

Don't you get notifications in the mail your ID/license is about to expire and don't IDs/licenses have expiration dates on them?

[jamesrage]

It's the old "poll tax" argument. Incidentally, as many probably know, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that voter id laws are constitutional. 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/scotus.voter.id/

The interesting thing about the opinion is that Justice Stevens jumped ship and voted with the righties on the court.

I think the whole poll tax argument is bunk because voter id laws require that you show something that the huge vast majority of people already have and use for other purposes, nor are they taking money for ballots.

[guido911]

Can you actually cite examples of widespread election fraud or are you just spouting nonsense?

Ironically, accidental fraud is incredibly common. As in people forgetting to change their registration and voting in the wrong school district or city council election. Why is it that the legislature sees fit to solve a problem that doesn't exist rather than a problem that is in fact an issue?

And again, I hope you don't suddenly realize the day of the election that your license is expired or that you lost it. It's not just about the money.

I recall two city council elections being voided and new elections ordered because of "irregularities" whatever that means. Wasn't there some sort of a bs publicity stunt that MDG pulled were he alleged an empty lot (or something) voted in the Turner primary several years back?

[nathanm]

Last time I checked the city does not send you a notification in the mail weeks after an election is over detailing what you voted for and they do not check IDs.So how is one supposed to gather proof that any fraud in this regard has happened? The lack of evidence is not proof that wrong doing has not occurred. Therefore is it is nonsense to be asking for such proof when there is no way to determine or gather evidence that fraud has occurred.

There's all sorts of ways to figure out whether widespread election fraud is happening. Significant deviations from exit polling are indicative, although not proof in and of themselves. Reports of folks turning up to vote after someone else has voted using their name would be another. You gotta sign the book, so it's not as if people can just vote forty times in one election without anybody noticing.

Don't you get notifications in the mail your ID/license is about to expire and don't IDs/licenses have expiration dates on them?

No and yes. Lots of people still forget. And if you lose it or it's stolen from you and don't happen to have two other forms of ID on hand, I guess you're just out of luck, eh?

[nathanm]

I recall two city council elections being voided and new elections ordered because of "irregularities" whatever that means. Wasn't there some sort of a bs publicity stunt that MDG pulled were he alleged an empty lot (or something) voted in the Turner primary several years back?

I don't know about the latter, but I did see a few Oklahoma court cases about election irregularities when I was looking for an answer to someone's previous comment about Oklahoma requiring or allowing that you be required to show your registration card, and they all came down to people voting in the wrong precinct, not intentional fraud.

This is a non-issue being pushed by certain partisan interests in an attempt to keep those who are more likely to vote for the other party from voting. That they cloak it in some sort of fraud prevention is just meaningless window dressing.

That said, I doubt most in the Oklahoma legislature have heard any more on the subject than the window dressing itself. They mostly probably don't even realize where the push is coming from.