Tulsa Named Most Dangerous City In Oklahoma

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by neptune74137

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

I heard the same thing too. I just don't understand why it seems that no one is interested in more border security.

My theory on that...and its just a theory...I think there are many companies of varying sizes that are making enormous profits by paying low wages...where if they were to hire American workers, employment laws and various other issues arise that 1) make everything more expensive, 2) make everything more transparent (no more "under the table" tax breaks)

I think there are some powerful business forces trying to keep the borders porous...particularly the border with Mexico.  Anyone find it a little odd that its the Texicans that seem to be "on point" in pushing open borders?  There have also been humanitarian groups trying to keep access open to immigrants, but they've never had any real power.  My opinion...a completely closed border is quite "humane."

Of course...it could simply be politics.

             One thing I find very amusing about the whole illegal issue is; The current proposal by President Bush to grant work cards if Mexicans have employment guaranteed in the US,..

This is only brought up every so often...... Almost as a carrot in front of the donkey to encourage more to cross and find employment.......

If they were to push this through, it would open the door for employment agencies to set up in Mexico and recruit bottom dollar labor for US companies.....

Just one other note.. They already have employment agencies that do this, the difference is they are run by "Coyotes" contracting to the highest bidder..

[rwarn17588]

This porous border is a ticking time bomb for the Bush administration. All it takes is an al-Qaidan coming into the country through Arizona or something and blowing something up to expose the hypocricy of boss man's so-called "war on terrah."

[Neptune]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

This porous border is a ticking time bomb for the Bush administration. All it takes is an al-Qaidan coming into the country through Arizona or something and blowing something up to expose the hypocricy of boss man's so-called "war on terrah."

Could be.  It would seem to me that in a post-911 world, knowing who is crossing the border would be more important than toppling dictators we don't like.  But what do I know?

I think the boarder is a fairly complex issue.  If the GOP is able to break off some of the "Humanitarian Wing" and "Minority Wing" of the Democratic party, it benefits the GOP greatly.  So...it could be pure politics.

But, it seems ironic to me that its Bush and the Texicans that are pushing this.  If there wasn't somebody making money off this and telling people this is a "good thing", I'd think it would be a hard sell...especially in Texas.  These folks still think they are a part of the "Republic," fighting an on-going Alamo against Mexican invasion.  Arizona is obviously tired of it, but not Texas?

Then theres the price tag.  Notice how domestic issues aren't making headlines?  The money simply isn't there.  We're defeciting ourselves through the Iraq War, and the current administration seems to be happy with that.  But if you talk about running a defecit for virtually anything else, its a bad thing.  Think about the perceptions and politics around Social Security as compared to those of the Iraq War or TSA.  The cost of closing the borders will be substantial.  Once again, more political than philosophical.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by neptune74137

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

This porous border is a ticking time bomb for the Bush administration. All it takes is an al-Qaidan coming into the country through Arizona or something and blowing something up to expose the hypocricy of boss man's so-called "war on terrah."

Could be.  It would seem to me that in a post-911 world, knowing who is crossing the border would be more important than toppling dictators we don't like.  But what do I know?

I think the boarder is a fairly complex issue.  If the GOP is able to break off some of the "Humanitarian Wing" and "Minority Wing" of the Democratic party, it benefits the GOP greatly.  So...it could be pure politics.

But, it seems ironic to me that its Bush and the Texicans that are pushing this.  If there wasn't somebody making money off this and telling people this is a "good thing", I'd think it would be a hard sell...especially in Texas.  These folks still think they are a part of the "Republic," fighting an on-going Alamo against Mexican invasion.  Arizona is obviously tired of it, but not Texas?

Then theres the price tag.  Notice how domestic issues aren't making headlines?  The money simply isn't there.  We're defeciting ourselves through the Iraq War, and the current administration seems to be happy with that.  But if you talk about running a defecit for virtually anything else, its a bad thing.  Think about the perceptions and politics around Social Security as compared to those of the Iraq War or TSA.  The cost of closing the borders will be substantial.  Once again, more political than philosophical.

Things may be improving.

Today's Lorton's World a.k.a. the Tulsa World reported that -0- police officers died in the line of duty in Oklahoma during 2004.  

The last Tulsa PD officer, Officer Dick Hobson, killed in the line of duty occurred back in 1996, shot in a dark alleyway in downtown Tulsa.

I suspect the reason for the falling number of LEO's killed in the line of duty is a change in their procedures.  They tend to shoot first before attempting an arrest if the suspect appears to be armed.  There were a number of suspects gunned down by the Tulsa PD during 2004 who were alleged to have "pointed" a firearm at police.  

Not "fired" a gun.

Just "pointed" a gun.

And, they know that dead men tell no tales.

Get it.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

This porous border is a ticking time bomb for the Bush administration. All it takes is an al-Qaidan coming into the country through Arizona or something and blowing something up to expose the hypocricy of boss man's so-called "war on terrah."

              Yesterday there was a story on the News regarding a "Gang" called MS 13..............

The News made it sound as though this was a Maryland based "Gang"......

Anyone that would like to type "MS 13" Into Google will find that it is far more than that..... Something more akin to a mercenary group!!.........

This "Gang" has already been found to have smuggled "Al Qaida" suspects into the Country..

The problem with the Border is that, if it were to be sealed up tight, many companies would go belly up!!..

This Administration knows that...... Every other Administration has known that.......

             Sadly, I think it will take something like "911" or
the "OKC Bombing" being directly linked to one of these "Al Qaida" Nuts to make it politically advantageous to do any thing about this............

[thetulsan]

Have you heard of Jayna Davis' book, 'The Third Terrorist'? OKC was most certainly tied to Islamaniacs.  ['Oh for crying out loud, do NOT get HIM started on THAT!']

[rwarn17588]

So when the hell should a cop fire his gun? Wait for a suspect to actually open fire so that the cop can be wasted?

Yeah, I would have changed the procedures, too.

You don't want to be shot by a cop? Then leave the gun at home, or leave it in the glovebox.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

So when the hell should a cop fire his gun? Wait for a suspect to actually open fire so that the cop can be wasted?

Yeah, I would have changed the procedures, too.

You don't want to be shot by a cop? Then leave the gun at home, or leave it in the glovebox.

I don't want to see the police shot at.

In no case I'm referring to in Tulsa where the police shot a suspect did anyone actually shoot AT the POLICE.

The common demoninator throughout the last couple of years of TPD shootings of suspects has been the suspect "pointed" a gun at police.  Not SHOT at the police.  "Pointed" a gun at police.

Since no TPD officer has been killed since 1996, it appears that this is evidence of a new dynamic at work in TPD policing.

Namely, when these pre-planned arrests and drug raids are launched, the police have already surrounded the residence or building being raided.  The suspects do not realize this.  

The suspects, protecting valuable contraband currently considered "illegal", are defending themselves with firearms from other "competitors" who use violence to control market share.

It's all about 'bizness'.

So, when a suspect runs out the back door with a gun in their waistband, the police are waiting outback in ambush.  The TPD is simply blowing these people away.  And, dead men tell no tales.

The same thing happened over in Sequoyah Co. a few years ago.  The local sheriff and a multi-county drug task force accompanied by the DA (Ms. Barker-Harrold) launched a nightime No-Knock raid on a suspected drug dealer.  The suspect was outside working on his car with his pre-teenage son.

Unbeknownst to the suspect, a police sniper had already infiltrated his property, and had him zero'd in his telescopic sights.  A Turkey Shoot.

So, when the first UNMARKED police cars, WITHOUT sirens or flashing lights came crashing through his gate, the suspect quickly retrieved a semi-automatic rifle and started shooting at the intruders, AFTER he had already been sniped by the police sniper.  He claimed self-defense from a home invasion.

It was a LEO set-up deal to kill him, because the same LEO's had tried to nail him previously and he wasn't convicted, and they were out to get him.  Barker-Harrold went along on the pre-planned execution that went slightly awry.

The SUSPECT unfortunately survived the police sniper bullet plus the subsequent deliberate torture inflicted on him by the sheriff's deputies of dragging him by his hair, wounded and bleeding out of his house.

Since the driver of the UNMARKED, UNLIT car was shot by the homeowner, the SUSPECT of course was tried for murder.  There was a hung jury.  Then, he was Re-tried for Murder.  

Found guilty of negligent homicide, with the sentences structured by the crony county judge to run consecutively to make sure that he stayed in prison a long, long time for what was basically a shooting in self-defense against assailants unknown.

Now, the Feds are trying him for the murder of a LEO.  The Feds say, well, we know that the Constitution has that pesky little clause in it against Double Jeopardy, but you just need to understand that we are a different JURISDICTION, so it's not REALLY Double Jeopardy.  And of course, the crony FEDERAL judge say OKAY; go right Ahead.  And, it's A-OK to ask for the Death Penalty to appease the LEO community.

Just one LITTLE problem with this entire matter:  

There were NEVER any drugs found.........OOPS!

Sort of gets overlooked in the rush to Just-Us.

Oh, and I'm sure the defendant's son will get used to growing up without his Daddy.  

Maybe Ms. Barker-Harrold can be his Mommy, now that she's been run out of the DA's office.  Well, not really RUN; more like waddled.

[Tulsa2005]

Uranus, I'm glad to know if I choose to break into your house and rob you as long as I only point the gun you won't shoot.  You are crazy!

There have been many instances where officers have been shot at and the suspect not killed.  

You don't want to deal with the police, don't break the law, that's pretty easy.  Anytime someone points a gun at my husband, it a pretty easy choice for him, he's coming home and if the other guy is in a body bag, that stinks for him.  It makes me sad to see people say such ignorant things and know you are the same people he puts that vest on every night to protect, and you don't even appreciate it.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by Tulsa2005

Uranus, I'm glad to know if I choose to break into your house and rob you as long as I only point the gun you won't shoot.  You are crazy!

There have been many instances where officers have been shot at and the suspect not killed.  

You don't want to deal with the police, don't break the law, that's pretty easy.  Anytime someone points a gun at my husband, it a pretty easy choice for him, he's coming home and if the other guy is in a body bag, that stinks for him.  It makes me sad to see people say such ignorant things and know you are the same people he puts that vest on every night to protect, and you don't even appreciate it.

You're really jumping all over the place in making conclusions about what I think.

What you're dealing with is a pretext shooting.  The pretext is that a SUSPECT who has in their possession a gun actually tried to USE the gun.

What you have is a policeman's WORD that the suspect "pointed" a gun.  Not SHOT a gun.  "Pointed" a gun.

I think you must actually believe what the police report in their crime reports.  

It's frequently creative fiction.  And, you actually don't have any idea as to what the true facts are.

Only the police have CONTROL of the facts.  And, they can easily manufacture the facts.  
Especially is a city like Tulsa which has no INDEPENDENT Citizen Review Board.

And, gullible people swallow it.

[Tulsa2005]

I've read plenty of your posts, you make your opinion well known.

It is very rare that there are no witnesses to these shootings, there is almost more than one witness who tells the story.  Of course, I can already imagine you are going to tell me that the police pressure these people to lie as well, but you are wrong.  

And to tell me I don't know what's going on, I don't pretend to have all the facts, but I have met many of these officers who have taken another's lives, and contrary to your view, many of these officers are very shaken and hurt by having to take another's life.  It is not their goal each and every day to see how many people they can kill.  It's their goal to protect and serve your arse and hopefully make it home to their family every night.  How many officer's do you know?  How many times have you participated in the Citizen's Ride Along program, have you attended the Citizen's Police Academy?  I venture to say your answer is no, therefore, I pretty darn sure you don't have any facts to your opinions of the TPD on.

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by Tulsa2005

I've read plenty of your posts, you make your opinion well known.

It is very rare that there are no witnesses to these shootings, there is almost more than one witness who tells the story.  Of course, I can already imagine you are going to tell me that the police pressure these people to lie as well, but you are wrong.  

And to tell me I don't know what's going on, I don't pretend to have all the facts, but I have met many of these officers who have taken another's lives, and contrary to your view, many of these officers are very shaken and hurt by having to take another's life.  It is not their goal each and every day to see how many people they can kill.  It's their goal to protect and serve your arse and hopefully make it home to their family every night.  How many officer's do you know?  How many times have you participated in the Citizen's Ride Along program, have you attended the Citizen's Police Academy?  I venture to say your answer is no, therefore, I pretty darn sure you don't have any facts to your opinions of the TPD on.

Well, if you're MARRIED to a LEO, maybe, just maybe, you're slightly biased as well.

I have no interest in attending a formal police propaganda channel like the Citizen's Police Academy or do a Ride-Along with the TPD.  

Their informal propaganda channels like the Tulsa World, and the local TV stations are hard enough to stomach.

Actually, what the police are doing with their de-facto SHOOT ON SIGHT procedure is educating criminals that if they are carrying a gun, they might as well USE that gun.  

And, I don't mean POINT it.

Once these class of suspects understand that the TPD is no longer taking prisoners if the police believe someone is armed, then they will start coming out BLAZING.  

Then, you may have some police injured or killed.  

You'll see.

[Rico]

Mr. Uranus...... Since day one you have had the uncanny knack of uncovering the corruption within Government,......
Wealthy People..........
Tulsa Police Dept..........
ETC.
ETC..
ETC.................

Oh I left one out, ETC...................

In fact after reading all of your posts I have never been more sure that there are problems within Tulsa and the surrounding areas..........

I would like to offer you the opportunity to Really show us Okies what the heck we are supposed to be doing.......

Lets PLAY KING FOR A DAY.......

YOUR THE KING Mr. Uranus......  Where Do We Go From Here??

You have dissected the entire City.     Brought all of the Corruption to light .............

What is your plan that we should follow??

DO YOU HAVE ANY ANSWERS???

OR ARE YOU JUST GOING TO CONTINUE TO COME UP WITH THE HIDDEN TRUTH................??

     I know this is probably going to make you SAY...

"THAT IS NOT YOUR THING.........."

"THIS FORUM IS ABOUT OPINIONS AND YOU WILL GLADLY SHARE YOURS..."

Let me say this, if all you have are supposition and take it from me's, your just making a case for more money being needed for the mental health system in this State.

Anyone can grumble and Moan and paint a really Dark Picture.........Filled with Mystery.........

Believe it or not, most better than you ..........

Time to" blank "or get off the pot..................

Show us just How Smart You Are... Tell Us What Needs to Be Done.......... In Your Humble Opinion of Course........

[Pluto74114]

quote:Originally posted by Rico



Where Do We Go From Here??

What is your plan that we should follow??

I will tell you what I plan to do ..... MOVE!!!

Portland never looked better. You tell me, what is the reason to live in this place since I cannot think of one.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Pluto74114

quote:Originally posted by Rico



Where Do We Go From Here??

What is your plan that we should follow??

I will tell you what I plan to do ..... MOVE!!!

Portland never looked better. You tell me, what is the reason to live in this place since I cannot think of one.

Then get the heck down the road...........

By the way are Pluto and Uranus one in the same?

Or could you just not find a place to place one of your annoying little sound bites that anyone at all would read it.........................