Tulsa Named Most Dangerous City In Oklahoma

[rwarn17588]

<start clip>

There will always be the arguement, will more police really reduce crime? That could be debated for hours.

<end clip>

Yes, it does. The studies have shown this is pretty much a fact. Giuliani proved it in New York City. More cops were hired, and the Big Apple's crime rate went down big time.

I like Bill LaFortune, but this is unquestionably one of his failures. Police manpower needs to be a big priority, and it isn't. If there isn't enough money, act like a real Republican: start cutting money from someplace else and give to the police. I wish *all* the councilors (not just the Gang of Five) would raise more hell about this. And I'd be shocked if it wasn't a big issue with the next mayoral election. It should be.

[owassoguy]

I think the police needs more manpower and perhaps standard raise to keep violent crime down. More neighborhood patrols and park patrols will keep crime in check. Northwestern Tulsa seriously needs some police backup before someone gets murdered. I dont mind extra county tax to help to pay for police force countywide and few extra sheriffs wouldn't hurt too.

[Neptune]

So...we should stop any kind of spending on Libraries and such, so that we can spend extra money on police while the FED continues to drop excessive regulations in the name of "terrorism" on us, without paying for it.  Maybe we could make the TPD beg on the streets of Jenks.

[swake]

Ok, here's an idea to get more cops on the street without a tax hike.

Tulsa is an urban county, why do we have a sheriff's department? Merge the city police and the county sheriff, let any other cities that wish to join in and help pay do so too. Cut the administrative cost of the police department put more into police and detectives on the street.

Oh, and no matter what, get rid of CCA, they have saved us no money and do a terrible job. How many criminals does it take to be released by accident before they get fired?

[silverfz1]

You know, it kind of comes to my mind that if you don't have good police protection and your crime rate continues to go up that we probably aren't going to be able to lure too many large conventions into the area.

Come to our great new arena for your convention, not only does the city need your money, our criminals could use some new victims as well! It could be a great marketing campaign.

We need to spend money on police and fire, road and bridge infrastructure, recruiting companies and jobs into our area. After you build your job base back up guess what comes with it...............increased tax revenue! What a novel concept, increase your tax base, not your tax rate and the city will have more money to spend on all of these feel good look good projects that they seem to want. What a novel concept, put more people to work in better paying jobs and your tax revenue for the city increases. You eventually end up with your money for an arena and all this other crap while building a strong base for your long term future................wow!!!!

But, back on topic, if the city doesn't get crime under control it will not be an attractive convention and event city. You draw your own conclusions on the effect that will have on the build it and they will come theory!

Brian

[silverfz1]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Ok, here's an idea to get more cops on the street without a tax hike.

Tulsa is an urban county, why do we have a sheriff's department? Merge the city police and the county sheriff, let any other cities that wish to join in and help pay do so too. Cut the administrative cost of the police department put more into police and detectives on the street.

Oh, and no matter what, get rid of CCA, they have saved us no money and do a terrible job. How many criminals does it take to be released by accident before they get fired?

Because the entire county of Tulsa is not actually in the city. I guess if you wanted to annex the entire county of Tulsa into the city that would work, but then the entire county would be policed by the Tulsa City Police Officers. Hell they can't afford to police the city limits they already have now. I dont' think that Broken Arrow, Owasso, Sapulpa, Catoosa........are all going to agree to being brought into the city proper. Too many people losing power on that deal!

Brian

[swake]

Nice theory about the crime rate hurting convention business, but it's not true, the two cities with the largest tourist/convention industries both have crime rates higher than Tulsa's.

Tulsa      633.7
Las Vegas   694.5
Orlando      758.9

Why would the city have to annex the rural areas? We have a City/County Health Department and a City/County Library system today, why not a City/County police force? We don't need to force Broken Arrow to merge their police, but offer them the option. And even so merging the police departments does not mean having to merge the cities, many cites have metro and city/county police departments, it's very common.  Oh, and check a map, Sapulpa and Catoosa are not in Tulsa County.

[rwarn17588]

Yeah, I knew that crime rate/conventions link was weak. Chicago had some horrific homicide numbers this year, and I don't think that's going to stop conventioneers from going to McCormick Place.

And don't get me started on Vegas, which has a crime rate that's worsening.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Nice theory about the crime rate hurting convention business, but it's not true, the two cities with the largest tourist/convention industries both have crime rates higher than Tulsa's.

Tulsa      633.7
Las Vegas   694.5
Orlando      758.9

Why would the city have to annex the rural areas? We have a City/County Health Department and a City/County Library system today, why not a City/County police force? We don't need to force Broken Arrow to merge their police, but offer them the option. And even so merging the police departments does not mean having to merge the cities, many cites have metro and city/county police departments, it's very common.  Oh, and check a map, Sapulpa and Catoosa are not in Tulsa County.

  I know you are not seriously comparing Tulsa to Las Vegas, Orlando or Chicago? I know that Las Vegas, Orlando and Chicago do have higher crime rates but look at what they have to draw visitors!  What exactly does Tulsa have?  High crime rates and a broze statue that is not built! Indian bingo and casino halls with such big name draws as Ed "Too Tall Jones"! A downtown full of only bars were 30+ people fighting on the sidewalks outside are common on the weekends. An Arkansas River that is sometimes full.  

Lets face it comparing Las Vegas, Orlando or Chicago to Tulsa is like comparing a expensive car to a skateboard, or apples to apple seeds, or oranges to lemons ect. I'm sure you are getting the picture. Don't get me wrong, I love living in Tulsa but those other cities are in a different catagory all together.

As far as combining the police departments,

TCSO minimum requirments:
Certified Deputy - 21 years of age.
60 credit hrs. from an accredited college, or Advanced Certificate from CLEET.
Reside in Tulsa County within 90 days of employment.
Pass background investigation.
Pass a written exam at 75% or above.
Pass a oral screening board at 75% or above and interviews.
Weight in proportion to height.
Vision - Corrected distant vision 20/20 in each eye.
Successfully pass a physical/medical examination as established by the Sheriff's Office.
Successfully pass a drug screening examination.
Successfully pass the MMPI psychological examination within 3 months of employment.
Meet identity requirements as required by federal law.
No Protective Order or on probation/parole, no criminal record charges pending, never convicted of a felony.
Successfully pass all required training.

TPD minimum requirememts:

Applicants must be 21-45 years of age.
There are no residency requirements to take the test, but applicants must be U.S. citizens and reside in the Tulsa metropolitan area once hired.

Applicants may not have been convicted of a felony or a crime of moral turpitude.

Applicants must have completed a Bachelor's degree with a C+ average or better at an accredited college. No military hours or credits are accepted unless they are received from or converted through an accredited college.

Far Visual Acuity of at least 20/30 in each eye with or withour corrective lenses.
Peripheral Vision without correction of 140 degrees in the horizontal median in each eye.

Ability to distinguish red and green on a standard Ishihara test for color blindness.

Hearing must be normal in both ears. No hearing aid devices will be accepted.

Successfully complete the written aptitude test.

Complete the take home background questionnaire (BIQ).  Mail or deliver the BIQ and an official college transcript with a raised seal to the Testing Coordinator.

Appear for oral interview before the Police Screening Board.

Undergo a comprehensive background investigation conducted by the Tulsa Police Department.

If an applicant passes the above then they must pass a medical examination by the City Physican, including drug screening test and Psychological assessment.

ALSO:

* There is no lateral entry into the Tulsa Police Department.  All selected applicants, regardless of previous law enforcement experience or rank, will enter employment with the Tulsa Police Department as an APO (Apprentice Police Officer) which is the City of Tulsa's entry-level law enforcement position.

Even if you could find some middle ground on the requirements, how do you combine the employees.  Do police officers with a Bachelor's degree or a master's degree get paid more?  How much more?  What do you do with all the ranking officers (Sheriff, Chief of Police, Deputy chiefs, undersheriffs, captains, sergeants, corporals ect.)How do you rank officers.

When people test to promote what will be the requirements?  Will college degrees count?  If they do then the sheriff's office will always loss out initially.

These are just some of the smaller problems at combining the two offices at first glance. Not even considering the difference in equipment and tactics. So I think everyone can see the difficulty it would be if it was even tried.

As far a CCA is concerned, they really do need to go but the bad thing is TCSO doesn't want the jail back.  That was where most of their headaches were in the first place. TCSO is content with patroling the county areas and doing prisoner transfers.  There as been talk about making TCSO take the jail back but TCSO estimate on what it would cost for them to run it is more then the county is paying CCA now.

[MH2010]

Short-handed police are doing well
Sometimes it's nice to see these in the Tulsa World:

I would like to say thank you to the Tulsa
Police Department; they are doing an unbelievable
job having such few officers. I have
been out there with them and ridden along
with them. It is an eye-opening experience. I
can't believe the job they do with so few people.
Mayor LaFortune should be ashamed
that he put them in this situation. They are
doing a fantastic job. -Tulsa World November 26

[Rico]

Well it did not take very long to put the 79.1 Million request for the new library on the front page.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_1_11_28_2004.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com?TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_3_11_28_2004.pdf

I am not saying we should not spend money on a library,
or other things for that matter...........
We need Priorities.....

What surprised me, when this whole Project Euphoria..., Dress up the City and people will want to live here.......,
Build it and They will Come.............,
Give Us An Arena and We Can Rule the WORLD............,

Project, Vision 2025, was in the planning stages, Tulsa Now was a part of the process.

How was it presented in such a way that it did not seem peculiar that there were all these cuts being made to City Services, and the Plan did not address replacing any of these??? Or was the Plan suppose to eventually give the City enough operating capital to put everything back together......??

I attended several meetings with people from the Mayor's office... These were not public meetings, My question to them was "Your increasing sales tax for all of these projects, why not round the tax rate off at 9% and put the City back on it's feet??"

The response was " People do not like paying all these taxes"

SAY WHAT???  Could you run that by me once again..

Why can we not put The City back together, and make it a City that families want to move to???
Families do make up the work force don't they???



This problem will not go away.... We will not have a higher ranking as a safe place to live unless we do something about this. If this means we have to use the Library the way it is now for a while, fine.
Not a very big sacrifice........ Especially when all of the alternatives are considered..........  

(One more thing and this is for MH, I read in the Tulsa World where a lady gave a Thanksgiving Treat to Uniform Division North... Sounded like Quite A Menu!!!......
Just Wondered did they have many cases of indigestion due to the Fact The Mayor chose to attend?)  

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Well it did not take very long to put the 79.1 Million request for the new library on the front page.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_1_11_28_2004.pdf

http://www.tulsaworld.com?TWPDFs/2004/Final/A_3_11_28_2004.pdf

I am not saying we should not spend money on a library,
or other things for that matter...........
We need Priorities.....

What surprised me, when this whole Project Euphoria..., Dress up the City and people will want to live here.......,
Build it and They will Come.............,
Give Us An Arena and We Can Rule the WORLD............,

Project, Vision 2025, was in the planning stages, Tulsa Now was a part of the process.

How was it presented in such a way that it did not seem peculiar that there were all these cuts being made to City Services, and the Plan did not address replacing any of these??? Or was the Plan suppose to eventually give the City enough operating capital to put everything back together......??

I attended several meetings with people from the Mayor's office... These were not public meetings, My question to them was "Your increasing sales tax for all of these projects, why not round the tax rate off at 9% and put the City back on it's feet??"

The response was " People do not like paying all these taxes"

SAY WHAT???  Could you run that by me once again..

Why can we not put The City back together, and make it a City that families want to move to???
Families do make up the work force don't they???



This problem will not go away.... We will not have a higher ranking as a safe place to live unless we do something about this. If this means we have to use the Library the way it is now for a while, fine.
Not a very big sacrifice........ Especially when all of the alternatives are considered..........  

(One more thing and this is for MH, I read in the Tulsa World where a lady gave a Thanksgiving Treat to Uniform Division North... Sounded like Quite A Menu!!!......
Just Wondered did they have many cases of indigestion due to the Fact The Mayor chose to attend?)  

I haven't talked to anyone yet you attended the meal.  You can bet the mayor either ate alone or people were ordered to eat with him.  The funny thing about the mayor is he is either the most ill informed mayor in the history of Tulsa or he will just lie to your face.  He really believed we got a 6% raise and no one got a pay decrease out of the arbitration decision.  It took the FOP taking the paychart and having to set down and explain everything to him for him to finally admit he was wrong.

He also went to a FOP meeting before he was mayor and stated he was all for public safety and would never settle the BOC lawsuit. He would rather the city fight it in court because TPD and the city had done nothing wrong.  And what was the first thing he did in office, settle the lawsuit and cut two academy classes.

[Steve]

I just want to put my 2cents worth in the library bond issue discussion.  Tulsa's current central library is more than adequate.  I do all my library surfing online, and if there is a book or publication that I want to check out, I do it online and have it sent to my neighborhood branch for pickup.  Why do we need a $50,000,000.00 central library? (Not to mention my modern architecture preferences for the current central library.)  This upcoming library bond issue is insane and totally unnecessary.

[owassoguy]

Well it could go to fund Tulsa downtown police headquarters since Tulsa doesn't have one instead it has a sheriff's office.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by owassoguy

Well it could go to fund Tulsa downtown police headquarters since Tulsa doesn't have one instead it has a sheriff's office.

Actually, we king of have a headquarters down town. It takes up part of the second and third floors of the municipal court building.  That is where the chief's office, detective division and Internal affairs is located. However, it is nothing like a true "headquarters".  It would be nice to have a real headquarters downtown.