Montana poised to buck federal gun control

[jamesrage]

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2009/04/05/bnews/br51.txt
HELENA, Mont. (AP)-- Montana-made guns may form the basis for a court showdown over states' rights if the governor signs a bill to release some firearms in the state from federal regulation.

The proposed law aims to exempt firearms, weapons components and ammunition made in Montana and kept in Montana from federal gun laws. Since the state has few gun laws of its own, the legislation would allow some gunowners and sellers in the state to skirt registration, licensing requirements and background checks entirely.
"We'd like to just be able to make our own guns here in Montana and have the feds stay out of it," said Gary Marbut of the Montana Shooting Sports Association, which helped draft the bill.

The real target, though, is the U.S. Supreme Court. And Marbut and others believe they can hit that mark with a simple Montana-made youth-model single-shot bolt-action .22 rifle.

In particular, they plan to find a "squeaky clean" Montanan who wants to send a note to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives threatening to build and sell about 20 such rifles without federal dealership licensing. If the ATF tells them it's illegal, they will then file a lawsuit in federal court n with any luck triggering a legal battle that lands in the nation's highest court.

House Bill 246 sailed through the Montana Legislature, but Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer has not yet offered a position on the measure, which awaits his action.

The federal enforcement agency for gun laws has also not taken a firm stand.

"ATF is not going to take a position on this because we don't make any of the laws, we just enforce the laws that Congress makes," said Carrie DiPirro, spokeswoman for the Denver field division, which oversees Montana.

Through the Constitution, Congress has authority to regulate interstate commerce, which serves as the legal basis for gun regulation in the United States.

Efforts to bypass that authority have been heard before by the U.S. Supreme Court. In 2005, the court upheld federal regulation of marijuana in California, even if its use is limited to noncommercial purposes n such as medical reasons n and it is grown and used within a state's borders.

[cannon_fodder]

Awesome.

I don't look at this as a gun control or 2nd Amendment issue at all.  Remove that from the equation.  It is not my primary concern here.

It is a States Rights issue.  I understand there has to be a balance and we need a somewhat stronger central government than the founders initial envisioned (they realized this too as by 1800 we had national taxes, a navy, a standing army, a central bank, etc.).   It took a huge leap forward after the civil war to enforce rights granted under the Constitution.  But since WWI we have trended more and more to Big Brother says it and the State WILL comply on all issues, most far apart from the pursuit of liberty or freedom.  After WWII it is totally Federal. 

Even most of the programs the States run are just subsidiaries of Federal Programs.  ODOT is subservient to the US DOT, Oklahoma Department of Education gets so much funding from the Fed that they have to do what they are told, and forget about social programs - the Fed just flat out dictates what we do with those.

All under the guide of Interstate Commerce and of course being careful not to coerce anyone into action.  Want a drinking age at 18 y/o old high school graduate?  You can do that, we'll yank all your Federal Road money so you'll pay in $500,000,000 to the road fund and get NOTHING back, back you can do it because States have rights.

Want to legalize medical marijuana?  Knock yourself out!  But we'll burn your fields and arrest state workers handling the evil drug.  Oh yeah, we may also start chipping away at medical funding for your state.

One law in the last 60 years has been struck down as being over bearing.  Every other law the Congress has passed has been as part of a "limited government" that is restricted by a respect to States Rights.  If someone in Colorado lets their son pee while swimming in the Arkansas it might cause a flood in Tulsa and prohibit shipping from the Port of Catoosa- therefor they have cause to regulate the Kool-Aid consumption of children near rivers nationwide.   

A gun made in Montana sold to a Montana citizen and used in Montana might fire across interstate lines and blow up a train.  The government will not let this stand.  The interstate commerce test is a total joke - a fart in Montana reduces the value of Oklahoma natural gas, EVERYTHING effects interstate commerce under their test.

Fight the good fight Montana.  California can take it up on alcohol production for their wineries.  Oregon on medical Marijuana.  Washington State on assisted suicide. 

Limited government my eye.

[FOTD]

Hmmmm....taxes too?

[cannon_fodder]

Hmmmm....taxes too?

Thanks for adding to the conversation.

[Cats Cats Cats]

The interstate commerce test is a total joke - a fart in Montana reduces the value of Oklahoma natural gas

Drew Edmondson is on it!

[Hawkins]

Additional federal gun laws are not going to be passed anytime soon.

I heard something on NPR yesterday that although there has been a rash of mass shootings recently, Congress will not move on any new proposed gun laws (including reestablishment of the assault weapons ban) because many Democrats know that such measures are unpopular with their local constituents.

I'm glad to hear this.

Anyone else go to the Wanamaker Gun Show last weekend? It was PACKED in there.

Saw some bumber stickers that read, "Obama wants your gun." 

I pointed this out to my wife, we laughed, and I wondered, which one does he want to borrow, and why? 

--

[Chicken Little]

Awesome.

I don't look at this as a gun control or 2nd Amendment issue at all.  Remove that from the equation.  It is not my primary concern here.

Sorry you don't see it as a gun control issue, but that's what it is.  It's quite literally a manufactured issue put on by people who are STILL trying to paint Obama as a gun grabber.  Whatever his feelings, neither he nor congress will act for the reason that Hawkins mentioned. 

The "cold dead hands" crowd can't wrap their minds around the fact that they've been politically outmaneuvered.  The time and money they're going to spend to keep this zombie walking is pretty laughable.  Hell, there's plenty of "gay" in the news these days for free!   

[cannon_fodder]

I'm confused Chicken Little, was my argument on States right snot coherent?

Also, have firearms been outlawed or something?  I was unaware that some political maneuvering had occuered that negated the 2nd Amendment.  Please clarify.

[we vs us]

I'm confused Chicken Little, was my argument on States right snot coherent?

Heh.  You said snot.

[custosnox]

The "cold dead hands" crowd can't wrap their minds around the fact that they've been politically outmaneuvered.

I'm with CF on this one, since we are not politically out maneuvered until it becomes illegal to own a firearm.  And this admendment exists in case politions forget that the rest of the constitution exists. 

And it is over states rights.  Read the article, they plan on using the issue of a .22 cal to stand on for the battle.  Last I checked, .22's weren't the weapons of choice of the "cold dead hands" crowd.  While some may have 2nd admendment reasons for standing behind this bill, the heart of it lays in stat rights, period.

[Chicken Little]

I'm confused Chicken Little, was my argument on States right snot coherent?

Also, have firearms been outlawed or something?  I was unaware that some political maneuvering had occuered that negated the 2nd Amendment.  Please clarify.

It's coherent, just wrong.  This is pure wedge-issue politics; a backdoor attempt at starting a fight over guns.  Honestly.  How many gun manufacturers are there in Montana?  Currently zero?  And these guys are actually trying to find a person to make them in order to get ATF to tell them to stop?  And that doesn't tell you anything?

Why guns?  Why not try to exempt Montana-made vodka, or pharmaceuticals?  Because. It's. GUNS.

There is no threat to your second amendment rights.  None, whatsoever.  The gun lobby has got half the country beet-faced red about the issue and there IS no issue.  They're shooting blanks and people are starting to figure that out.  Obama pwned them on this.

[custosnox]

It's coherent, just wrong.  This is pure wedge-issue politics; a backdoor attempt at starting a fight over guns.  Honestly.  How many gun manufacturers are there in Montana?  Currently zero?  And these guys are actually trying to find a person to make them in order to get ATF to tell them to stop?  And that doesn't tell you anything?

Why guns?  Why not try to exempt Montana-made vodka, or pharmaceuticals?  Because. It's. GUNS.

There is no threat to your second amendment rights.  None, whatsoever.  The gun lobby has got half the country beet-faced red about the issue and there IS no issue.  They're shooting blanks and people are starting to figure that out.  Obama pwned them on this.

Now wait a moment here, are you telling me that you went up to Montana and checked all the records and all the towns to make sure there weren't any small firearms manufacturers up there?  The reason that the issue is over guns is because, quiet frankly, they are almost a necessity in a wilderness state like montana.  That is one of the few places I would actually expect to see a small, local manufacturer.  The fact of the matter is as soon as folks such as yourself see the word gun, you go into a flight to start putting down gun owners and advocates as best as you can.  If it had been over any other issue, you would most likely never even pipped up.

[Chicken Little]

I'm with CF on this one, since we are not politically out maneuvered until it becomes illegal to own a firearm.  And this admendment exists in case politions forget that the rest of the constitution exists.

Here's what I mean by outmaneuvered: Obama has not made the NRA look good or bad, he's made them look irrelevant.  And that is the WORST possible place to be.  It makes you do desperate, dumb stuff...like write a law about homemade guns and try to get it to the Supreme Court.  That's puts the NRA on par with NORML.  Kooky, risky business.  

[Chicken Little]

Now wait a moment here, are you telling me that you went up to Montana and checked all the records...

No...I just read the article.

...they plan to find a "squeaky clean" Montanan who wants to send a note to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives threatening to build and sell about 20 such rifles without federal dealership licensing. If the ATF tells them it's illegal, they will then file a lawsuit in federal court n with any luck triggering a legal battle that lands in the nation's highest court.

If there were a gun manufacturer, wouldn't they have found him or her already?  It seems like a pivotal part of their plan, dontcha think?  Ya think they might MOVE somebody to Montana to get the popcorn popping?  I do.

And what they hell do you know about me?  "Folks such as yourself" tend to talk themselves into corners pretty quickly.  Did you ASK me if I owned a gun?  I'm happy to announce that I do and I'd be tickled to hear that you own one too.  I've got my rights and I respect yours.  What I can't stomach is dumb*ss wedge issue politics when the world is teetering.  God, guns, and gays are so 2004.

Sure, you might need a gun to survive in Montana...kinda sorta...if it snows hard enough.  I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want my life to depend on a gun that I made in my garage.  You need a truck in Montana, too, but not necessarily a homemade one.  I'd still like to know why they didn't have a bill to sell Montana-made moonshine to eight-year-olds.  It's Montana's business, right?  That's a state's rights issue.  Why guns?  'Cause they're guns.   

[we vs us]

No...I just read the article.
If there were a gun manufacturer, wouldn't they have found him or her already?  It seems like a pivotal part of their plan, dontcha think?  Ya think they might MOVE somebody to Montana to get the popcorn popping?  I do.

And what they hell do you know about me?  "Folks such as yourself" tend to talk themselves into corners pretty quickly.  Did you ASK me if I owned a gun?  I'm happy to announce that I do and I'd be tickled to hear that you own one too.  I've got my rights and I respect yours.  What I can't stomach is dumb*ss wedge issue politics when the world is teetering.  God, guns, and gays are so 2004.

*applauds*