Tulsa River Dams pass house despite OKC votes against

[swake]

The state house passed the bill to restore funding for Tulsa's dams. The bill is now on the way back to the state senate. The measure passed 55-38.

By my count the Tulsa metro area reps voted 18-3 to pass. The rest of the state outside the Oklahoma City metro also voted to pass, 21-17.

The majority of the votes against the dams were from the Oklahoma City area, they voted 18-6 against restoring Tulsa's share of the bond issue.

Why exactly should we support things like a basketball team or expanded rail service in Oklahoma City when Oklahoma City area legislators are the ones fighting against Tulsa on even getting it's share of funding on issues that have already been passed.



The votes:
Voting for the bill: Armes, R-Faxon; AuJet, D-Stilwell; Bailey, D-Broken Bow; Banz, RMidwest City; Benge, R-Tulsa; Billy, R-Lindsay; Blackwell, R-Goodwell; Brannon, D-Arkoma; Collins, D-Norman; Cox, R-Grove; DeWitt, R-Braman; Denney, R-Cushing; Derby, ROwasso; Dorman, D-Rush Springs; Fields, R-Wynonna; Hamilton, D-OKC; Hickman, R-Dacoma; Holland, R-Marlow; Jackson, REnid; Jett, R-Tecumseh; Jones, R-Claremore; Jordan, R-Jenks; Kiesel, D-Seminole; Kirby, R-Tulsa; Lamons, D-Tulsa; Liebmann, R-OKC; Martin, Steve, R-Bartlesville; McCullough, RSapulpa; McDaniel, Jeannie, D-Tulsa; McNiel, R-Bristow; Miller, R-Edmond; Osborn, R-Tuttle; Peters, R-Tulsa; Peterson, R-Tulsa; Proctor, D-Tulsa; Pruett, D-Antlers; Renegar, D-McAlester; Richardson, R-Minco; Sanders, R-Dover; Scott, D-Tulsa; Sears, R-Bartlesville; Shelton, D-OKC; Sherrer, D-Pryor Creek; Shoemake, D-Morris; Shumate, D-Tulsa; Smithson, D-Sallisaw; Steele, R-Shawnee; Sullivan, R-Tulsa; Terrill, R-Moore; Thomsen, R-Ada; Tibbs, R-Tulsa; Trebilcock, R-Broken Arrow;Walker, D-Elk City; Watson, R-Tulsa;Wright, Harold, R-Weatherford.
Voting against the bill: Brown, Mike, DTahlequah; Buck, D-Ardmore; Cannaday, D-Porum; Christian, R-OKC; Coody, R-Lawton; Cooksey, R-Edmond; Dank, R-OKC; Duncan, R-Sand Springs; Enns, R-Enid; Faught, R-Muskogee; Glenn, D-Miami; Harrison, D-McAlester; Inman, D-OKC; Joyner, R-Midwest City; Kern, R-OKC; Key, R-OKC; Kouplen, D-Beggs; Luttrell, D-Ponca City; Martin, Scott, R-Norman; McAJrey, D-OKC; McDaniel, Randy, R-Edmond; McMullen, D-Burns Flat; Moore, R-Arcadia; Morrissette, D-OKC; Murphey, R-Guthrie; Nelson, R-OKC; Ortega, R-Altus; Ownbey, R-Ardmore; Reynolds, Mike, R-OKC; Ritze, R-Broken Arrow; Roan, D-Tishomingo; Rousselot, D-Wagoner; Schwartz, R-Yukon; Shannon, R-Lawton; Thompson, R-OKC; Wesselhoft, R-Moore; Williams, D-Stillwater; Wright, John, R-Broken Arrow.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090410_16_A1_OKLAHO947934

[custosnox]

personally I think that OKC is afraid of the competition if we get our heads above wanter and start moving on more lifestyle changes in Tulsa.

[cannon_fodder]

What I've heard from "old timers," and maybe folks can confirm, is that Tulsa has always been screwed by Oklahoma City.  But when the oil boom was full force we didn't care as our citizens could pay for everything and provide enough jobs.  When the economy crashed in the 1980's Oklahoma City was down worse than Tulsa was.

But now that Oklahoma City shares in any oil boom nearly as much as Tulsa, we suddenly care that we have gotten a bum wrap for a century.  But it is SO ingrained in the mindset of Oklahoma City that all government jobs, services, and programs belong to them that the status quo is upheld.  Philanthropists in Tulsa can pay for our arena and convention expansion if they want to, it isn't the States problem.  But if the State wants to change a law to give $50,000,000 to an NBA franchise in OKC - it flies through.

New Museum for Oklahoma City?  Absolutely.

Dams for Tulsa?  Why can't you pay for that yourself?

Oklahoma City wants to move a freeway to make downtown?  DONE.

Tulsa wants to repair grade F bridges, try to open others to emergency vehicles, and widen one of the busiest highways in the State?  Maybe next decade (or 3).

Why exactly should we support things like a basketball team or expanded rail service in Oklahoma City when Oklahoma City area legislators are the ones fighting against Tulsa on even getting it's share of funding on issues that have already been passed.

Portion out the hapless governmental jobs so Tulsa has a fair share of State employment, get rid of the toll road only policy around Tulsa, and toss Tulsa $50mil towards some frivolous entertainment and I'll pretend we are at par.  From there on out each city can pay their own way.  Since Tulsa is a net loser in State tax money, I doubt they'd find pay-your own way a good proposal and Oklahoma City will continue to milk all the government jobs, subsidies, and infrastructure they can.

[nathanm]

I don't really have a problem with government jobs being in the state capital. That's sort of how it works. I do have a problem with them expecting us to pay for their NBA team and their highway relocation and whatever else and then having to fight like hell to get funding for anything we want money for, or to be told that linking the state's two largest metro areas by rail is less important than rail to southern Kansas.

I'm almost at the point of saying screw 'em. Let's build high speed rail to Springfield, Fayetteville, Kansas City, and even Fort Smith. Why make it easier for Tulsans to spend money in OKC? Since apparently they don't want it, let's just bypass the morons and make it easier for surrounding areas to spend money here (and for us to go elsewhere).

I don't really have a problem with the net state tax drain per se, as long as it's mostly going to the rural areas, rather than OKC, which it sadly doesn't appear to be.

Or we could just become our own state, although I don't really like the name Sequoyah.

[Renaissance]

dam them! 

Seriously, though, many OKCers actively despise Tulsa and any of its efforts to improve things.  They're rather obsessed--still--with comparing the two towns and making sure OKC is superior.  Even the ones who live here find ways to belittle Tulsa. 

http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs/17364-tulsa-outdoing-us-2.html#post214019

Tulsa is increasingly becoming a secondary city within Oklahoma, playing on the same stage with the Springfields and Wichitas.

[nathanm]

http://www.okctalk.com/tulsa-suburbs/17364-tulsa-outdoing-us-2.html#post214019

Wow, that quote was ridiculous. They obviously think more highly of themselves than they rate. If Tulsa is a Springfield or Wichita, what does that make OKC? Pueblo?

[waterboy]

It is interesting to note that a Sand Springs legislator and a Broken Arrow rep voted against the measure. If they feel strongly about it they should explain why. Especially the SS rep whose city presumably would receive benefit. Perhaps he doesn't feel that in reality SS will ever get a dam in his lifetime or be able to make use of one if they do? If so, I agree. And the result of that will be a failed dam in Jenks. Is it possible something else is slowing the progress? Maybe our case is not being presented strongly enough? Or the case is weaker than some feel? The issues of connectability, ecology and ongoing maintenance, security and usage that I have brought forth over the last few years....have not been addressed in this proposal. People say they can be addressed, they can be utilized etc, but in my heart, I feel they won't be.

I do not feel this is an OKC vs Tulsa family feud. If the thinking above is not the reason for the negative votes, then this is just a manifestation of power. The rural areas swing a lot of clout and usually get their way. OKC swings a big club and gets their way. We don't. We also can't make very good alliances because of our location within the state. If Arkansas, Kansas and Missouri could vote with us WE would be a big dog with a snarl. Instead, we are impotent.

[cannon_fodder]

I don't really have a problem with government jobs being in the state capital. That's sort of how it works.

I understand that Nathan.  It it the pervasiveness of it that is really annoying.  Tulsans pay for SOOOOO many jobs in Oklahoma City.  In many (most) states "secondary cities" are given a piece the the state jobs pie.  Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee/Madison, I'm sure there are plenty more examples.  To the best extent possible, state jobs are monopolized in Oklahoma City - not even lip service is done for sharing that wealth.

The problem is to such an extent we have to beg to get state funding for medical care (OSU Medical Center), police investigations (ME's office), State educational facilities (see 5 half-donkey [sorry] State University's in Tulsa instead of one full service State campus:  Langston, NSU, Rogers, OSU-Tulsa, OU-Tulsa.  Fine schools, but not on par with what most other cities our size offer in a State school), and many other core services.   It's just annoying.  At least PRETEND like you give a damn what the 1/3rd  of the State that lives closer to Tulsa than OKC thinks.

[Rico]

I understand that Nathan.  It it the pervasiveness of it that is really annoying.  Tulsans pay for SOOOOO many jobs in Oklahoma City.  In many (most) states "secondary cities" are given a piece the the state jobs pie.  Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee/Madison, I'm sure there are plenty more examples.  To the best extent possible, state jobs are monopolized in Oklahoma City - not even lip service is done for sharing that wealth.

The problem is to such an extent we have to beg to get state funding for medical care (OSU Medical Center), police investigations (ME's office), State educational facilities (see 5 half-donkey [sorry] State University's in Tulsa instead of one full service State campus:  Langston, NSU, Rogers, OSU-Tulsa, OU-Tulsa.  Fine schools, but not on par with what most other cities our size offer in a State school), and many other core services.   It's just annoying.  At least PRETEND like you give a damn what the 1/3rd  of the State that lives closer to Tulsa than OKC thinks.

Now, now.... Ken Neal and the boys make many trips to OKC for just this reason.

A few more years and several more million in Tulsa tax dollars and they may have an idea for a partial solution to all this.

[waterboy]

Gee. You guys make OKC sound like a better investment for quality living than here in Tulsa. Better funding for roads, schools, hospitals and bridges. Better funding for livability qualities like downtown housing, river development and entertainment. Easier to do business with. Easier to find employment. Why are we here again? The hills and greenery?

[nathanm]

The problem is to such an extent we have to beg to get state funding for medical care (OSU Medical Center), police investigations (ME's office), State educational facilities (see 5 half-donkey [sorry] State University's in Tulsa instead of one full service State campus:  Langston, NSU, Rogers, OSU-Tulsa, OU-Tulsa.  Fine schools, but not on par with what most other cities our size offer in a State school), and many other core services.   It's just annoying.  At least PRETEND like you give a damn what the 1/3rd  of the State that lives closer to Tulsa than OKC thinks.

These complaints I agree with wholeheartedly.

[waterboy]

They DO pretend to care. Then they cut us off at the knees. Its our reps who pretend to fight for us that bothers me. We have enough clout that with a few well placed alliances we could  hinder OKC"s momentum and force them to consider our pet projects. Note that Tahlequah's representative also voted against the dam funding. No one asks why?  Then there is no chance to build alliances. Northeast OK should be bargaining with what little power we have rather than whining about how OKC just doesn't keep our interests in mind.

Why would anyone else outside our area be interested in building a dam for one of Tulsa's ambitious burbs?

[Conan71]

This is how it's supposed to work with Tulsa's legislators sticking together and rallying support from other areas (aside from OKC).  OKC has borrowed lots of support from Tulsa in the past.  I say F 'em from now on when they've got a major bill for state funding in the future.

[Townsend]

Haven't seen any articles today...Did Henry sign the bill?

[sgrizzle]

Haven't seen any articles today...Did Henry sign the bill?

Watch for the temperature to suddenly drop outside. If we get our money, it means hell has frozen over.