TCC's Parking Lot Wasteland

[sgrizzle]

Funny how last year, TCC needed money for an Owasso campus, which was of course rejected by voters, and then, the money later appearedd for the same project;  also funny how they can give out free tuition; yet, they don't have money to be a good citizen of downtown and build a parking garage.

 

This needs some correction.

They were asking for money for an Owasso campus. Now they are getting a small building they are sharing. While both technically "buildings" there is a big difference. Only 16 of the 76 Million was going to the owasso campus.

TCC also doesn't just "give out free tuition" they are leveraging existing programs, matching dollars, etc and TCC itself pays only a small portion of the Tulsa Achieves total funding.

Also, how ironic is it that you brag about the shooting down of a bond for classrooms but are shocked they don't have funding to build a parking garage? One is part of TCC's stated mission and the other is largely aesthetics.

[SXSW]

I hope we can recreate that 1978 streetscape along Boston one of these days, with new mixed-use buildings and maybe a new office tower.  I'd like to see the streetscape that looks so nice from 3rd to 8th extended all the way down to 18th with the space for parallel parking and new sidewalks and trees.

Also, the image I posted is from Skyscraperpage.com and is part of a large thread about Tulsa with some amazing recently-taken aerial photos.  Lots of positive comments have been made about the city, take a look: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158609

[Gold]

This needs some correction.

They were asking for money for an Owasso campus. Now they are getting a small building they are sharing. While both technically "buildings" there is a big difference. Only 16 of the 76 Million was going to the owasso campus.

TCC also doesn't just "give out free tuition" they are leveraging existing programs, matching dollars, etc and TCC itself pays only a small portion of the Tulsa Achieves total funding.

Also, how ironic is it that you brag about the shooting down of a bond for classrooms but are shocked they don't have funding to build a parking garage? One is part of TCC's stated mission and the other is largely aesthetics.

That's fair.  I really question the amount of investment our community has made in TCC.  It serves a purpose, but I think we would be better suited investing more in four year universities, especially those with research facilities.  I was not in favor of the expansion to Owasso. (Why help Owasso when Owassa won't help us?)  I also didn't like that public funding when towards a pursuit that was defeated, even if it's not the same project.

TCC's downtown campus needs to be more integrated with downtown.  Right now, they've done a pretty good job of making the campus an island.

[sgrizzle]

That's fair.  I really question the amount of investment our community has made in TCC.  It serves a purpose, but I think we would be better suited investing more in four year universities, especially those with research facilities.  I was not in favor of the expansion to Owasso. (Why help Owasso when Owassa won't help us?)  I also didn't like that public funding when towards a pursuit that was defeated, even if it's not the same project.

TCC's downtown campus needs to be more integrated with downtown.  Right now, they've done a pretty good job of making the campus an island.

I wasn't a big fan of the Owasso expansion either but as I understand it is more of the college integrated with High School type programs. TCC is adding better programs and expanding but if they are determined to keep a stranglehold on first-two-years curriculum, then there needs to be 1000x more transparency between the institutions.

I have gotten the general idea that future development at TCC may be northward and more towards the rest of downtown. Personally I'd like to see TCC take over some existing space rather than buy a new building. Then you would have hundreds of students wandering around downtown to get between classes.

[Gold]

That would be great.  Plenty of office space to the north that needs to be used.

They get a lot of funding and not many people understand how they operate and how they are held accountable.  I actually really liked Bates' article on TCC last year.  I'm all for spending on education.  I just hope that the money we are spending on an increasing number of public post-secondary educational opportunities is done so in a way that we get the most bang for our buck.  Right now, I see some things that make me have to scratch my head; the parking is probably the least of them, though it is annoying. 

I'm not sure what would replace the parking lots.

[SXSW]

Is there not a name for this part of downtown?  Seems like other parts of downtown have names like Blue Dome and Brady, is there a historical name for the area of south downtown?

[mjchamplin]

Is there not a name for this part of downtown?  Seems like other parts of downtown have names like Blue Dome and Brady, is there a historical name for the area of south downtown?

I believe the Downtown Live folks have coined it "Cathedral Square" in light of the large concentration of old religious architecture.

[sgrizzle]

I believe the Downtown Live folks have coined it "Cathedral Square" in light of the large concentration of old religious architecture.

There is actually a sign in that area denoting "Cathedral Square" but it is talking about a smaller area. I think DTU calls it "The Rt 66 District" although Rt66 originally ran down 2nd.

[mjchamplin]

There is actually a sign in that area denoting "Cathedral Square" but it is talking about a smaller area. I think DTU calls it "The Rt 66 District" although Rt66 originally ran down 2nd.

Yeah I think technically "Cathedral Square" is just that little green area at 11th (?) and Boulder.

Though I'm all for calling it the "TCC Parking Lot Wasteland". 

[TheArtist]

According to the Tulsa Now/Downtown Live!  map... its Cathedral Square. And we all know thats the map that really counts.     The district just above that is the Deco District.

[SXSW]

Personally I like the name Cathedral Square for the whole area.  Now if we can just get an actual 'Square' in front of Holy Family Cathedral that could be the focal point for the entire district.  I know that idea has been thrown around before.  All it would take from the city is the investment in a half block park between Boulder and Main in front of Holy Family along 8th Street, and then hopefully a master plan could be developed for building mixed-use residential buildings on the parking lots around it.  That would create a nice transition in between the churches/TCC and the CBD, and offer a place of recreation for future residents and school children at the church day schools.

Something like Jamison Square in Portland (which was a parking lot) with landscaping and a water feature would be cool framing one of the most beautiful cathedrals in the region (Holy Family):

[TheArtist]

Looking at that picture.... Tsk, Tsk, Children and families in an urban environment?  Thats heresy. Everyone in Tulsa knows that children and families can only live in a suburban environment. Those pictures must have been doctored.

[TURobY]

Looking at that picture.... Tsk, Tsk, Children and families in an urban environment?  Thats heresy. Everyone in Tulsa knows that children and families can only live in a suburban environment. Those pictures must have been doctored.

Portland-area residents thought exactly the same. So, what did they do to convince suburbanites that the "big, bad city" wasn't so scary after all?

[TheArtist]

Not sure that most Portland area residents really thought that way. They have been very progressive on many fronts for decades as pertaining to urban design, urban boundaries, mass transit, etc.

One important etc. being... designing urban environments with children in mind.

Whatever we do in this city to revitalize our downtown, and areas around it, including possible ideas for the TCC wasteland, is to keep children and families in mind.

Looking at those pics its plain to see this is an urban neighborhood, not office park or entertainment district. Though right around the block may be areas that are more office or retail oriented, or that have more of an entertainment vibe. Most if not all of the buildings are residential, and meet the street in a pedestrian friendly manner. Perhaps having some retail on the ground floors and offices in some of the buildings as well. The square is designed as kind of a neighborhood park. The city children have a convenient, safe place to play with lots of eyes from all the windows and balconies looking down as a safety factor.

One of the things the Pearl District is trying to do is also make sure its a child friendly environment. The Woonerven streets are but one example. No real line between sidewalk or street, just one shared space. No signs, no stop lights, no speed limits, etc. The sidewalk, the street, the entrances and exits to the buildings, the buildings themselves, all part of one contiguous "room", one shared public space that creates a pshychology and awareness of everyone looking out for everyone else and a place where people naturally want to be. It creates a much friendlier place for families and children to be. Plus, again having nearby parks (the water retention ponds), trees, fountains, playgrounds, pedestrian friendly, child friendly streets, mixtures of uses, plenty of activity, permeable building facades/doors/windows/balconies as eyes on the streets, etc.   

The best places take a holistic approach considering many many factors. An easy rule of thumb for creating a safe, pleasing, welcoming urban environment is to think of creating ones that you would allow your children to be in, that would be attractive to families. If we keep that as our focus, all the rest will fall into place automatically.

But again, these things dont happen by magical happenstance. We have to decide  and actively make streets and areas that way. Thats why I ask, What do we want for that area? What streets should be "A" streets and "B" streets? Are we going to purposely make good areas and streets, or not? Unless some big developer goes in and decides for us, its up to us to make the descisions and guide the developments.

[SXSW]

Jamison Square in the heart of Portland's Pearl District was Tulsa's TCC Parking Lot Wasteland 10-15 years ago.  Transit, in the form of a streetcar through the district connecting it to downtown and other urban 'hoods, as well as mixed-use zoning and new public parks like Jamison Square spurred the renaissance.  I think the Cathedral Square and Uptown areas have the same potential in Tulsa located near (in Uptown's case in between) established older, wealthier neighborhoods and also next to downtown with Cathedral square basically in downtown (inside the IDL).  Both have some already established residential and a mix of office and retail space, just need more residents and shops/restaurants to be really active areas.