The Reign In Spain

[FOTD]

Stunning: Spanish prosecutors will seek criminal charges against Alberto Gonzales and five high-ranking Bush administration officials for sanctioning torture at Guantanamo.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-04-13/the-bush-six-to-be-indicted/

Sweet!

[sgrizzle]

[Gaspar]

Not the fluffy pillow!

Not the comfy chair!

Oh the horror!

[cannon_fodder]

And the Tulsa County DA will seek charges against Hitler.

So what? 

It is an interesting device to grab headlines, but nothing more.  Not only does the court lack jurisdiction in the matter, but they fail to provide an avenue to prove that the specific conduct of those accused is illegal.  Are charges sought against official in Saudi Arabia?  Iran?  Israel  Egypt?  Libya?  Somalia?  South Africa?  China?  North Korea?  Pakistan?  Afghanistan?  Mexico?  Venezuela?  Cuba?  Russia?  and on and on and on and on and on.  No, because it doesn't cause headlines.

Other than jurisdiction, legality, and selective enforcement - there is the issue of carrying out any edict the court may issue.

Otherwise, great move!

[Conan71]

Didn't you post this once already FOTD/AOX/RipTout?

[Hometown]

And the Tulsa County DA will seek charges against Hitler.

So what? 

It is an interesting device to grab headlines, but nothing more.  Not only does the court lack jurisdiction in the matter, but they fail to provide an avenue to prove that the specific conduct of those accused is illegal.  Are charges sought against official in Saudi Arabia?  Iran?  Israel  Egypt?  Libya?  Somalia?  South Africa?  China?  North Korea?  Pakistan?  Afghanistan?  Mexico?  Venezuela?  Cuba?  Russia?  and on and on and on and on and on.  No, because it doesn't cause headlines.

Other than jurisdiction, legality, and selective enforcement - there is the issue of carrying out any edict the court may issue.

Otherwise, great move!

Tell that to former Dictator Pinochet who was prosecuted by the same folks in Spain and was arrested on an international warrant while he was visiting London.

Four or so years ago when I first started participating in this forum you could have renamed the forum the "Baby Bush Fan Club."   Well what happened?  Where have all the fans gone?  Gosh, when I fall in love it's forever.   

FOTD, how'd you get so smart?  Where are you from?

[cannon_fodder]

Tell that to former Dictator Pinochet who was prosecuted by the same folks in Spain and was arrested on an international warrant while he was visiting London.

Four or so years ago when I first started participating in this forum you could have renamed the forum the "Baby Bush Fan Club."   Well what happened?  Where have all the fans gone?  Gosh, when I fall in love it's forever.   

1) Pinochet was a socialist idealist who led a military coup and executed thousands of his own citizens, imprisoned some 80,000 and bragged about directing the torture of some 30,000 people, sometimes to death. 

Bush is accused of allowing aggressive interrogation including women's panties on the head,  fake electrocutions, and sleep deprivation.  The worst torture tactic he is accused of is allowing water boarding.

See a difference there?

2)  Pinochet was a military dictator of Chile (who stepped down after an election, granted).  Bush was the President of the United States.

See the difference there?

3)  And how did that work out for Spain? 

He was never brought to trial.  Pinochet died in Chile outside of Spanish control.  He was given a state funeral.

Hence, my indignation at the notion.  Fire away Spain.  You haven't been at all relevant for over a century.  You haven't been among the first rate nations since the 1600's.  Fight the good fight (he says with typical American disdain).


Seriously, investigate the crap out of Bush.  Show me that he unjustly enriched himself or others.  Show me that he broke any international laws.  I have no stake in the matter or the man

FOTD, how'd you get so smart?  Where are you from?

How do you like them apples AOX?  When HT hops on your bandwagon you know you are in trouble.

[Hometown]

As I said Pinochet was arrested in London on an International Warrant.  He would have stood trial in Spain but the Judge showed mercy due to the fact he was elderly and allowed him to return to Chile.  He died disgraced.  Of course he had already disgraced himself in the face of the world community.  Bet you know who gave the Dictator a little assistance in committing his crimes too.

Now, let's talk about Italy bringing charges against our CIA agents for the practice of rendition.

And when we're done with that let's talk about Baby Bush's policy of extrajudicial executions of soft targets outside of the U.S.  So much to delve into here.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[we vs us]

As I said Pinochet was arrested in London on an International Warrant.  He would have stood trial in Spain but the Judge showed mercy due to the fact he was elderly and allowed him to return to Chile.  He died disgraced.  Of course he had already disgraced himself in the face of the world community.  Bet you know who gave the Dictator a little assistance in committing his crimes too.

Now, let's talk about Italy bringing charges against our CIA agents for the practice of rendition.

And when we're done with that let's talk about Baby Bush's policy of extrajudicial executions of soft targets outside of the U.S.  So much to delve into here.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

You're taking a good amount of glee in this.  It's making me laugh. 

[cannon_fodder]

HT, you seem to think I'm somehow supporting the use of such practices.  I'm neither supporting them nor condemning them in this discussion as that was not the topic.   I'm merely pointing out the differences between the parties and in general, the futility of the charges being considered.  It's a basic tenant of human history, strong nations don't yield their leaders or former leaders to a foreign court.  It has never happened.  When they are deposed or totally conquered, it can happen.  Otherwise, it's a political gesture at best.

Then suddenly we talk about rendition.  I have mixed feelings about it.  On one token we should follow international law.  On another token the Israeli's had it somewhat right - we know they did it and don't really give a damn if the Italians want to protect them or not.  I'll assume I have no more actual information on this than you do, and that such information is vague.  Thus, I really can't speak intelligently about it.

Now we moved on to execution by "Baby Bush."  First, you will have to be more specific with your allegations if you want an intelligent response.  Second, even if I knew what you were referencing I am of course not in a position to speak intelligently on the issue.  If we caught a suspect and just shot him, that's bad.  If we raided a compound and people shot at Americans so we decided to just blow the thing up, that's not so bad.

Finally, I never refer to Clinton as "Clit-in" or otherwise make up derogatory and condescending reference names for persons I do not like.  It adds nothing to your position. 

I take no pleasure in allegations nor actual commitment of ugly acts by our government.  I do not consider the allegations, acts, or responses to the same to be a humorous thing.   But when these acts are committed or alleged against your country, and in particular against a person you do not like - you find it funny.  I hope I am misconstruing the situation, because I fail to see the humor.   

[FOTD]

Lighten up Fartacuss

[Hometown]

I still believe what I posted here a while ago, that Bush will likely never face charges because of the power and prestige of the United States period.

But with the passage of time things could change.  I opined before that Bush is a relatively young man and things can change.

I can't imagine that anything would do more for the rule of law around the world that Baby Bush standing before a judge.  The current proposed U.S. Truth Telling Commission would be a big step in the right direction.

I also believe it is important for the Republican Party to know that there will be a price to pay when their elected leaders do damage to the United States.

[Conan71]

I also believe it is important for the Republican Party to know that there will be a price to pay when their elected leaders do damage to the United States.

Would you extend that lesson to include Democrats, Independents, and affiliates of other parties?  Most certainly there have been Democrat and independent leaders who have done damage to the U.S. as well.  You set a rather personally subjective standard when you come up with a charge of "doing damage".

[FOTD]

Non issue.

OUR President nixed this from over the seas.

The Bush war criminals will go unpunished. So much for Federal laws....

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/04/new-memos-how-bushs-justice-dept-approved-torture-waterboards-and-bugs


Coming out of my hopenosis.....

[FOTD]

 Busheviks planning to lie. Now there's a surprise. NOT.

McClellan: Bush insiders planning to 'spin an alternative reality'

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Bush_insiders_reunite_to_defend_policies_0415.html

and one for Guido!

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YOU WOULD NEVER HAD SEEN FUX NEWS OR CNN TELLING SHRUB HE WAS WRONG!