Remember Murrah?

[swake]

I am giving what you asked for MSM, you feel that it is credible, it does not matter what I think.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/05/pentagon-spending-billions-pr-sway-world-opinion/

It DOES matter because if what you say about the MSM is true, why would this story ever get published?

I knew about this story before you posted it. You were just sloppy with your linking.

I agree that there are parts of this story that are disturbing. The amount of money spend to get military focused press releases out is wrong. The Bush Whitehouse also paid a conservative talk show host to deliver his message.

BUT, this story exists, and that line item in the military budget exists, and Bush did pay (and got caught paying) a talk show host. There really is a law against the military using propaganda inside the United States. If the MSM (Fox in this case) was just a tool of the government, an American version of Pravda, then the Bush administration would have never needed to pay a talk show host, the military wouldn't need to spend so much money to get their message out and the military using propaganda inside the United States wouldn't be illegal. And this story would never have been written.

So, I say again, is this story a lie or truth. Because it makes no sense to lie about this stuff and if what you say about the MSM is true, why would any of this be needed?

[swake]

No, I really just do not know who 'they' are these days.  If Alt has some of that Blueberry with the maroon hairs and dewey crystals, though . . .

Who did Eisenhower mean when he warned of 'the military industrial complex'?  Why did Lincoln say America was the 'last, best hope of earth.'  What countries did Washington warn us of getting entangled with? Who, Swake, WHO ARE THEY?

Patrick Henry: "They tell us that we are weak, unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Three million people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, are invincible by any force which an enemy can send against us."

Here is what you posted:

Sooooo even as the international power clique openly talk about a new world currency, disarming Americans, creating a North American Union, instituting population controls, and are even now looting our country and selling future generations into perpetual debt - believing what 'they' say makes one an anti-Semetic racist.  Right-o.

If they are "openly talking", who are they? Now it seems you don't know. Are they "openly talking" only with masks on and voices disguised?

All you have here are nutty internet chatter talking points. You can't document a damn thing.

Now, it seems we have been fighting the new world order since the time of Washington. Damn, that is one persistent shadow organization bent on taking over the world. I certainly hope that we have agent 99 on it.

You asked me some specific questions however.

Who did "Eisenhower mean when he warned of 'the military industrial complex", he was speaking of the continuing power and size of the companies that had grown so large with the military build up for WWII. He was advocating a downsizing of the military and military spending.

"What countries did Washington warn us of getting entangled with?", Um, that would be the European and world powers at the time, the British Empire, France, The Holy Roman Empire, Imperial Russia, Spain, the Ottoman Empire.

As for Patrick Henry's words, they were about throwing off the rulers of the old world order and aren't very relevant, unless you are currently promoting revolution against the duly and legitimately elected government that Patrick Henry helped to found.

[altruismsuffers]

It DOES matter because if what you say about the MSM is true, why would this story ever get published?

I knew about this story before you posted it. You were just sloppy with your linking.

I agree that there are parts of this story that are disturbing. The amount of money spend to get military focused press releases out is wrong. The Bush Whitehouse also paid a conservative talk show host to deliver his message.

BUT, this story exists, and that line item in the military budget exists, and Bush did pay (and got caught paying) a talk show host. There really is a law against the military using propaganda inside the United States. If the MSM (Fox in this case) was just a tool of the government, an American version of Pravda, then the Bush administration would have never needed to pay a talk show host, the military wouldn't need to spend so much money to get their message out and the military using propaganda inside the United States wouldn't be illegal. And this story would never have been written.

So, I say again, is this story a lie or truth. Because it makes no sense to lie about this stuff and if what you say about the MSM is true, why would any of this be needed?

I understand your point but...this is the world we are talking about, it is not so cut and dry.  Even though four corporations own 98% of our media they are not at the will of whoever is "in power" at the time.  This is a business, people have to get payed, debts are due, backs are scratched, etc.  This is of course all an illusion as well, they have to make it seem as though we are free, they have to continue to give you a right or left to choose from.  If they outright owned the media even people like you would stand up and say "Wait a minute, this is bullshi*, I don't like this".  They don't want you or anyone to challenge them, and so they have to comfort you and make you believe you have a choice, Fox or CNN, Democrat or Liberal, Coke or Pepsi.  Heaven forbid you decide that both news systems are bologna, that both Ds and Rs got us in this mess, and that both coke and Pepsi will make you fat and give you diabetes.  So Bush "paying" for propaganda fits the scheme, now he is a radical R, trying to brainwash the L, stand up L, lets fight the R!  Now that Obama is prez the entire scheme has flipped.  Now the Rs are holding tight to their values to stop that crazy gun grabbing tax loving Obama.  As the bickering continues over petty sheit our liberties continue to diminish, the dollar continues to fall, and our country is still losing its sovereignty.  I think the problem Swake is you think to much.  You just need to open your mind and take in whats going on instead of trying to label everything into what you know.  Maybe what you think you know is not exactly right.

[swake]

I advocate protecting the freedoms Henry put his life on the line for, absolutely.  That 'old world order' is not much different than the 'new world order.'  It wants to disarm das volk, enslave us with perpetual debt, tax us beyond reason, and keep us down with a boot on the neck.  Our Founders would not even recognize the nation we are today or the pantywaists who inhabit it - your kind, especially. LOL!

You remember April 19? That was the date the Red Coats went for the guns in Lexington and Concord and the racist militants who founded Merca fared upon them.  That is why 4/19 is Patriot's Day.

God you're gullible. You have no substance what so ever. All of your posts are parroting the talking points fed to you by entertainers masquerading as conservative news talk show hosts and by wild eyed internet conspiracy sites.

I bet you enjoy "motivational" speakers and have purchased "how to" packages on making money buying foreclosed property with "little or no money down".

All you have proven here is that you couldn't find a fact if your parents sat you on top of an encyclopedia so you can sit at the big boy table.

[altruismsuffers]

new world currency
"One World, One Currency:
Destination or Delusion?"
http://www.imf.org/external/np/tr/2000/tr001108.htm

disarming Americans
NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

creating a North American Union
Security and Prosperity Partnership Of North America
http://www.spp.gov/

instituting population controls
Population control 'needs debate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7093099.stm
Population Futures for Australia: the Policy Alternatives
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1999-2000/2000rp05.htm
Chinese Riot Against Population-Control Measures
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274572,00.html

selling future generations into perpetual debt
$1.2 Trillion Deficit Forecast
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/business/economy/08deficit.html?partner=rss

Fumble through these and try not to be thinking of your rebuttal the whole time.  Soak it up.

[Wilbur]

Alright lets think critically here, if there were bombs inside the building... A Federal building.... Maybe they would want to save face and say, "Oh those were ours, they were for exercises" not "We screwed up majorly and somehow they got bombs inside a Federal building"


If you were there Wilbur I am sure you know Terrance Yeakey, the first police officer on the scene.  He was about a block away when the bomb blew up.  Somehow he ran right up to the scene and started saving people right away.  Interesting that he didn't cough or get burned by the toxic gases that an Anfo bomb creates. It is interesting also that after he started challenging the official story of the Anfo bomb that he "killed himself" by slitting his wrists and neck, beating himself up, changing his mind and started walking for help, and then shot himself in the head at point blank range.

Okay.  I'll play.

How do you know he really killed himself.  Maybe he knew too much.

[USRufnex]

Oh, fer Pete's sake...

I love these 20/20 hindsight government conspiracy arguments... so what is the answer?

Abolish the ATF? 

If we did that before the OKC bombing, we would have concluded this was the work of muslim extremists.... I was there.  I remember the initial knee-jerk reactions all revolved around the work of islamic terrorists... radio people on WKY, grandstanding politicians from both political parties, the Daily Oklahoman....

It was all those muslim students at OU... wait, UCO also has muslim students... and OCU does too...... OMG, they're all in this together, terrorists attacking the heartland of America..... and Tinker Air Force base is in Midwest City..... etc, etc...

I am grateful for the professional law enforcement and intelligence from federal, state and local who were dedicated to finding out the truth, no matter where that path led them...

I am grateful they found Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols in short order.  If you want to imply that the gubmint knowingly allowed the bombing, bring it on.

I've viewed and read the theories and they just don't wash... because they're brought up by the easily duped tin foil hat crowd who live in an alternate universe... is there an alliance of right wing fringe groups and islamic extremists?  Seems unlikely to me... Is there an alliance of left wing peace activists and islamic extremists?  Once again, highly unlikely.  Sometimes common sense can be your friend...

Personally, I think all our problems can be attributed to the existence of wealthy aliens who live in our midst and can only be seen using specially made dark sunglasses....

[Townsend]

Best Rowdy Roddy Piper movie ever...ever

[swake]

Oh, fer Pete's sake...

I love these 20/20 hindsight government conspiracy arguments... so what is the answer?

Abolish the ATF? 

If we did that before the OKC bombing, we would have concluded this was the work of muslim extremists.... I was there.  I remember the initial knee-jerk reactions all revolved around the work of islamic terrorists... radio people on WKY, grandstanding politicians from both political parties, the Daily Oklahoman....

It was all those muslim students at OU... wait, UCO also has muslim students... and OCU does too...... OMG, they're all in this together, terrorists attacking the heartland of America..... and Tinker Air Force base is in Midwest City..... etc, etc...

I am grateful for the professional law enforcement and intelligence from federal, state and local who were dedicated to finding out the truth, no matter where that path led them...

I am grateful they found Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols in short order.  If you want to imply that the gubmint knowingly allowed the bombing, bring it on.

I've viewed and read the theories and they just don't wash... because they're brought up by the easily duped tin foil hat crowd who live in an alternate universe... is there an alliance of right wing fringe groups and islamic extremists?  Seems unlikely to me... Is there an alliance of left wing peace activists and islamic extremists?  Once again, highly unlikely.  Sometimes common sense can be your friend...

Personally, I think all our problems can be attributed to the existence of wealthy aliens who live in our midst and can only be seen using specially made dark sunglasses....

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick a**.. and I'm all out of bubblegum.

[USRufnex]

[Hoss]

One of the funniest South Park episodes ever was based off the entire 'They Live' fight scene between Roddy and Keith David.  I'm at work, so I can't get on You Tube, but there's a comparison between the two fight scenes and it's pretty uncanny.

Trivia:  Keith and Roddy did not pull punches for sight gags for the fight except in the case of head shots and groin shots.  The fight scene was only supposed to last for 20 seconds, but John Carpenter was so impressed with it (Roddy and Keith rehearsed it for three weeks) that he kept the entire 5 minutes and 20 seconds of the fight in the movie.

[Townsend]

[altruismsuffers]

SWAKE?  I guess your no reply means you acquiesce.  You would rather talk about they live and cool fight scenes then debate the real issues.  It is ok most people are scared like you, movies and silly games take a lot less responsibility. 

new world currency
"One World, One Currency:
Destination or Delusion?"
http://www.imf.org/external/np/tr/2000/tr001108.htm

disarming Americans
NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

creating a North American Union
Security and Prosperity Partnership Of North America
http://www.spp.gov/

instituting population controls
Population control 'needs debate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7093099.stm
Population Futures for Australia: the Policy Alternatives
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/1999-2000/2000rp05.htm
Chinese Riot Against Population-Control Measures
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274572,00.html

selling future generations into perpetual debt
$1.2 Trillion Deficit Forecast
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/business/economy/08deficit.html?partner=rss

Fumble through these and try not to be thinking of your rebuttal the whole time.  Soak it up.

[patric]

'Luke Franey (a ATF agent who claimed he was in the building) was not in the building at the time of the blast, I know this for a fact, I saw him! I also saw full riot gear worn with rifles in hand, why? Don't make the mistake as I did and ask the wrong people.

This reminds me of a story a firefighter told me of his experiences as a rescuer there.
Some federal agents had been wanting to quickly borrow some of their firefighter gear (coats, air masks, etc), and they readily complied thinking there was an emergency that required it.
The next time they saw the gear it was on two unknown men walking with feds towards the bombing site at one of those times when other rescuers were told to evacuate the site.

Once rescuers were allowed to return to their work, they were pointed to two "survivors" trapped in an elevator that had been previously searched and found to be empty.
What followed was the televised "rescue" of two ATF agents from the elevator.

Now maybe it was someone covering timecard fraud, or some less conspiratorial monkey business, but weird things happened there nonetheless. 
The firefighter had nothing really to gain by telling me this other than an interesting story, but I put more trust in that firefighter than the feds who he said were confiscating firefighter's cameras and strip-searching them every time they left the site.

[swake]

SWAKE?  I guess your no reply means you acquiesce.  You would rather talk about they live and cool fight scenes then debate the real issues.  It is ok most people are scared like you, movies and silly games take a lot less responsibility. 

No, you are just full of sh!t and just post nonsense endlessly. You did this about 9/11 too and no amount of evidence even slowed you down. It's truly pointless to argue with you.