Maybe a Strange Question

[mjchamplin]

I drive by the abandoned Safeway on Denver almost every day (I know this has been discussed elsewhere, that's not what I'm on about.)

I'm curious about finding some statistics on how many people live within walking distance of the store. Does anyone know where I might get some rough population estimates on the high-rise condos and apartments in the area?

This is just kind of a pet project I've been mulling over in my head for a while. Any information would be helpful.

[Hometown]

I drive by the abandoned Safeway on Denver almost every day (I know this has been discussed elsewhere, that's not what I'm on about.)

I'm curious about finding some statistics on how many people live within walking distance of the store. Does anyone know where I might get some rough population estimates on the high-rise condos and apartments in the area?

This is just kind of a pet project I've been mulling over in my head for a while. Any information would be helpful.

Very good question but someone else will have to give you numbers.  I live on Reservoir Hill (in North Tulsa) and drive to either 15th & Lewis or 41st and Yale to do my grocery shopping at least once a week.  So do my neighbors.  There is no decent retail grocery operation in the entire North West Quadrant of the City.  And residents of Riverview and Maple Ridge must make the same drive I do.

That old Safeway is a decent looking building with lots of parking and it's centrally located for all these crusty old neighborhoods -- full of hungry, well-off shoppers.

I don't understand why someone isn't there, doing business, raking in the bucks right now.

[TheArtist]

I think there are several reasons that store closed. One, for a long time that area, downtown, and other nearby areas were going downhill. In recent years the trend has reversed. Another thing was that while the area was going downhill, the store went downhill too. I remembered going in there before it closed, it looked like crap. I didnt ever want to go back and would rather drive further to go someplace decent. But, thats neither here nor there lol. I do think the area is ripe for a grocery store once again.

Question, if a grocery store was to go in there, would it have the best luck being an inexpensive market or more "upscale"? If it were inexpensive, could it compete with the bigger chains that can get big cost reductions? We have had plenty of discussions on here where people will say,,, "I am not going to that store even though its closer to me because the prices are higher than the store I go to." or " Well that store doesnt have this or that, the selection isnt as good as my bigger store."

[guido911]

I remembered going in there before it closed, it looked like crap. I didnt ever want to go back and would rather drive further to go someplace decent.

You sure nailed that one. That floor was gross.

[PepePeru]

your best bet would probably be census 2000 data, yeah its pretty out of date at this point.
but i don't know of anywhere else that will have that detailed information you're requiring.


http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

there is an online map you can play around w.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=16000US4075000&_geoContext=01000US|04000US40|16000US4075000&_street=&_county=tulsa&_cityTown=tulsa&_state=04000US40&_zip=&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=160&_submenuId=factsheet_1&ds_name=ACS_2007_3YR_SAFF&_ci_nbr=null&qr_name=null&reg=null%3Anull&_keyword=&_industry=

[Conan71]

That was my "home" store when I lived at Center Plaza about 22 years ago.  It was pretty rough.  I think the old Cog Corner was still there across the street.  There was a rough liquor store and other undesireable businesses around then.  The area isn't quite such a homeless magnet anymore since most of the homeless centers are north of the tracks now.

[kylieosu]

I live about 6 blocks away from that store. Would LOVE to see it open again.

[FOTD]

I drive by the abandoned Safeway on Denver almost every day (I know this has been discussed elsewhere, that's not what I'm on about.)

I'm curious about finding some statistics on how many people live within walking distance of the store. Does anyone know where I might get some rough population estimates on the high-rise condos and apartments in the area?

This is just kind of a pet project I've been mulling over in my head for a while. Any information would be helpful.

The owner of that land will no more lease to a fly by night grocer than the man in the moon. He will sit tight for the first high return low risk option. To date, no takers. Don't hold your breath.

[Hometown]

The owner of that land will no more lease to a fly by night grocer than the man in the moon. He will sit tight for the first high return low risk option. To date, no takers. Don't hold your breath.

Is it a situation where he can claim a loss and offset profits from other holdings?  So it is actually to his advantage to leave it sitting empty?

Certainly the city would have tools at its disposal to make his life miserable and to motivate him to get it going.

[FOTD]

Is it a situation where he can claim a loss and offset profits from other holdings?  So it is actually to his advantage to leave it sitting empty?

Certainly the city would have tools at its disposal to make his life miserable and to motivate him to get it going.

1) Sure. But they don't need to do that. The land "someday" will be re-developed.

2) contrary to popular belief, the city is not in the real estate bidness. Also, we live in a democracy where the rights to property are paramount. The city could no more "motivate" these wise business people to move along any more than the wondering homeless in the "Brady". the owner did make concessions when the library was on the ballot....so, they no doubt would cooperate in a reasonable venture. Again, don't turn blue in the face over this...

[mjchamplin]

Well in the case of the owner of the property holding out, that's a shame. I don't think the city putting "pressure" on anyone is the solution -- instead do something to make it worth their while. Incentive.

So far as what type of grocery, I could see it going either way. High-end whole foods type place or lower cost, though I think a low cost provider would face steeper competition from other places. I don't know. Something in the middle of the road might be nice. I can't think of any chain in particular (at least from this part of the country). I would say that personally it seems like the kind of people that are moving into downtown might be the types of people who would appreciate a higher-end "boutique" type grocery store...who knows.

I'm neither a grocer nor a developer, I just see great potential in the property.  

[Conan71]

Speaking of large or small groceries, I've not heard Blue Jackalope mentioned lately.  Are they still around?

[Hometown]

1) Sure. But they don't need to do that. The land "someday" will be re-developed.

2) contrary to popular belief, the city is not in the real estate bidness. Also, we live in a democracy where the rights to property are paramount. The city could no more "motivate" these wise business people to move along any more than the wondering homeless in the "Brady". the owner did make concessions when the library was on the ballot....so, they no doubt would cooperate in a reasonable venture. Again, don't turn blue in the face over this...

City Club ....

But maybe the owner of this property is better placed.  I can hear Ms. Taylor, now, "It doesn't matter that we are best friends..."

Tulsa's such a small town, how can we help an occasional conflict?

[Hometown]

Well in the case of the owner of the property holding out, that's a shame. I don't think the city putting "pressure" on anyone is the solution -- instead do something to make it worth their while. Incentive.

So far as what type of grocery, I could see it going either way. High-end whole foods type place or lower cost, though I think a low cost provider would face steeper competition from other places. I don't know. Something in the middle of the road might be nice. I can't think of any chain in particular (at least from this part of the country). I would say that personally it seems like the kind of people that are moving into downtown might be the types of people who would appreciate a higher-end "boutique" type grocery store...who knows.

I'm neither a grocer nor a developer, I just see great potential in the property.  

This town is crawling with potential just about everywhere north of 51st St.

People in San Francisco would kill for the Pearl District or a zillion other potential opportunities here.

All we need are more people with dispossible income with the kind of sensibility that drives them to the city center.  We seem to be just short of a critical mass.  And we are doing our best to drive away one of our most dynamic economic engines that had been populating the older parts of town -- the Latin Community.

[TURobY]

This town is crawling with potential just about everywhere north of 51st St.

People in San Francisco would kill for the Pearl District or a zillion other potential opportunities here.

All we need are more people with dispossible income with the kind of sensibility that drives them to the city center.  We seem to be just short of a critical mass.  And we are doing our best to drive away one of our most dynamic economic engines that had been populating the older parts of town -- the Latin Community.

I seem to recall that the local government has been an active supporter FOR the Latino community here in Tulsa. It was the Oklahoma government that was working on driving them away.