Obama Confronts Republicans

[guido911]

Are you referring to the President Bush who signed off on torture, deliberately mislead the American people into two wars, allowed no-bid contracts, deprived citizens of their rights, and on and on and on?  That one?

He's some sort of 'ist', all right.  But words are insufficient.

Who was tortured? Are you referring to those three high level al Qaeda terrorists, one of which participated in killing 3K Americans that were waterboarded? Oooh. I am so deeply saddened for those guys, as is Daniel Pearl's widow. Incidentally, if you haven't heard yet, KSM gave up a plot to attack L.A. and also information that led to numerous arrests of other terrorists. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

Or, are you talking about those mean ol' interrogators that put a caterpillar in a room with some p$ssy terrorist that had a fear of bugs? Is it the Barney theme songf? Is it reading Harry Potter books? Is it sleep deprivation?  

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2008/02/list-of-songs-u.html

Incidentally, I, along with Nancy Pelosi (although she lies in her denial), are also fascists since we both supported these "enhanced interrogation techniques" that worked.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/24/AR2009042403339.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

As for Bush misleading the U.S. into two wars?  Let's see, who signed the Iraq Liberation Act and first discussed regime change in that country. Forgot, here's a hint, he was the notoriously fascist former dem president Bill Clinton.

http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/11/01/981101-in.htm


And here is former dem house minority leader and known fascist Richard Gephardt:

"I believe we have an obligation to protect the United States by preventing him [Saddam] from getting these weapons and either using them himself or passing them or their components on to terrorists who share his destructive intent," said Gephardt, who helped draft the measure.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/11/iraq.us/

No bid contracts? What does that have to do with fascism? At best that sounds like a political payback, kinda like that femi-fascist Diane Feinstein sending $25B worth of business to her husband's firm or the current sitting fascist president ear-marking a cool mil to his wife's hospital?  

Depriving citizens (presumably American) of their rights?  I guess you are referring to  certain elements in the Patriot Act, you know, the statute that was passed overwhelming by those fascist repubs and dems after 3K Americans were incinerated and which was renewed in 2005 with dem support?

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_earmark_wife/2008/03/14/80393.html

Or is it the NSA surveillance program that a fascist federal appeals court that four months ago held was constitutional?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html

Ed, you are spewing democratic underground/dailykos talking points and its rather pathetic and desperate. The fact is, and yes this could be construed as a "talking point", is that there was not one terror attack on American soil after 9/11 for which you and so many others will never give Bush credit for preventing (yes, I expect to hear RW say that the anthrax attacks were terrorism). When I hear folks decry waterboarding or caterpillaring, I personally believe they prefer to have Americans leaping to their deaths from 100 story buildings.

[guido911]

You are in the vast minority....we do live in a democracy. Quit acting like a pathetic loser.

Care to back that up with some facts? As I recall, more than 50 million people voted against Obama. And incidentally, we don't live in a democracy you moron, we live in a constitutional representative republic. I'm the pathetic loser? Jeez, it's like listening to my three year old.

Which one of these folks is you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bayNhJayn_U

[Ed W]

So we give up our rights, engage in torture, and essentially turn our backs on two centuries of liberty in order to get revenge for a terrorist's attack.  We give up those very qualities that made the United States that "shining city on the hill" because at it's base, the country was founded on justice and law rather than hatred and revenge.  

Sorry, Guido, but when you insist that our enemies can be subjected to various forms of torture, and worse, you're abjectly willing to cheer it on, you only assist those enemies in furthering the destruction of our ideals and our country.  

[guido911]

So we give up our rights, engage in torture, and essentially turn our backs on two centuries of liberty in order to get revenge for a terrorist's attack.  We give up those very qualities that made the United States that "shining city on the hill" because at it's base, the country was founded on justice and law rather than hatred and revenge.  

Sorry, Guido, but when you insist that our enemies can be subjected to various forms of torture, and worse, you're abjectly willing to cheer it on, you only assist those enemies in furthering the destruction of our ideals and our country.  

Wow, what a retort. I present facts, and you present sophistry.

This just in, Obama wants to roll back the right to have counsel present during interrogations:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5214985/Barack-Obama-administration-seeks-to-change-police-questioning-law.html

Given what you have just said about giving up "our rights", I suppose you will call Obama a fascist now. Otherwise, your an abject hypocrite. 

[sgrizzle]

Maybe it's just me, but if I found that we could've prevented 9/11 by sticking a cricket in their bed, bouncing them off a rubber wall or slapping them and we didn't, I would be more pissed about that.

I do find it ironic that the acts that the citizens of LA generally oppose the very thing that saved their lives.

If you kill a few thousand people we may eventually kill you, but we want to make sure you're not uncomfortable at any point before then.

[we vs us]

RE: -isms

RNC demands that the Democratic party rename itself "Democratic Socialist Party."

"WHEREAS, the American Heritage Dictionary defines socialism as a system of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy; and

WHEREAS, the Democratic Party has outlined their plans to nationalize the banking, financial and healthcare industries; and

WHEREAS, the Democratic Party has proposed massive government bailouts for the mortgage and auto industries; and

WHEREAS, the Democratic Party has passed trillions of dollars in new government spending, all with strings attached in order to control nearly every aspect of American life; and

WHEREAS, the Democratic Party and its leadership have dedicated themselves to a new taxing objective of direct income redistribution which takes additional taxes from one group of people and gives it in direct cash transfers to another group of people who pay no federal income taxes at all; and

WHEREAS, the American people are crying out for truth, honesty and integrity in politics; therefore be it

RESOLVED, that we the members of the Republican National Committee recognize the Democratic Party's clear and obvious purpose in proposing, passing, and implementing socialist programs through federal legislation; and be it further

RESOLVED, that we the members of the Republican National Committee recognize that the Democratic Party is dedicated to restructuring American society along socialist ideals; and be it further

RESOLVED, that we the members of the Republican National Committee call on the Democratic Party to be truthful and honest with the American people by acknowledging that they have evolved from a party of tax and spend to a party of tax and nationalize and, therefore, should agree to rename themselves the Democrat Socialist Party.

I'm happy that they wanted to use a dictionary definition, but I really think this has to be filed under "I don't think that word means what you think it means."

[we vs us]

Guido, I'm also happy to see that you're not shrinking from your convictions.  Namely that torture should be SOP when dealing with captured terrorists, or those who are captured and are accused of terrorism by the US or its allies.

And, about the Library Tower plot, there're some pretty well documented problems with the official timeline.  Short version:  KSM was captured in Spring of 2003, while the Bush Administration claimed he Library Tower plot had folded as early as February of 2002, when the cell leader was captured.

In other words, waterboarding KSM 183 times didn't produce the info we wish it had.  Maybe if we'd made it to 185 we could've pulled something actionable out . . .

[guido911]

Guido, I'm also happy to see that you're not shrinking from your convictions.  Namely that torture should be SOP when dealing with captured terrorists, or those who are captured and are accused of terrorism by the US or its allies.

And, about the Library Tower plot, there're some pretty well documented problems with the official timeline.  Short version:  KSM was captured in Spring of 2003, while the Bush Administration claimed he Library Tower plot had folded as early as February of 2002, when the cell leader was captured.

In other words, waterboarding KSM 183 times didn't produce the info we wish it had.  Maybe if we'd made it to 185 we could've pulled something actionable out . . .

We waterboarded KSM 183 times or was it one time but they made 183 tips of water onto this f'ers face. As far as the timeline, I am simply repeating what the CIA has said, which I think is fairly reliable.

As for supporting "torture", do you really believe placing a caterpillar in the room with a terrorist afraid of bugs and playing the Barney theme song is torture? Gee whiz, we live in a world full of wusses.

[FOTD]

Torture was used to try to link Saddam with 9/11.

Now, Guido pipe down before you become invisible and this forum starts resembling the real America.

[Ed W]

Wow, what a retort. I present facts, and you present sophistry.

Gosh, a few posts back, I was spouting someone's talking points, now it's sophistry.  Gotta be one or the other, Guido, not both.

But then, I live in a world bounded by truth and reality, one where morality isn't malleable. 

[Cats Cats Cats]

Maybe it's just me, but if I found that we could've prevented 9/11 by sticking a cricket in their bed, bouncing them off a rubber wall or slapping them and we didn't, I would be more pissed about that.

I do find it ironic that the acts that the citizens of LA generally oppose the very thing that saved their lives.

If you kill a few thousand people we may eventually kill you, but we want to make sure you're not uncomfortable at any point before then.

You are then one accuser away from the same treatment yourself.  If you are fine if that happens to you then you can stand over there with Guido.  We are only a few years before they will be waterboarding people to find out who leaked the Wolverine movie.  Gingrich 2012

[Hoss]

We waterboarded KSM 183 times or was it one time but they made 183 tips of water onto this f'ers face. As far as the timeline, I am simply repeating what the CIA has said, which I think is fairly reliable.

As for supporting "torture", do you really believe placing a caterpillar in the room with a terrorist afraid of bugs and playing the Barney theme song is torture? Gee whiz, we live in a world full of wusses.

If you want to repeat what the CIA has said, they also said, in 2004 no less, that 'there was no conclusive proof that waterboarding or other harsh interrogation techniques helped the Bush administration thwart any "specific imminent attacks," '.

Wow, that bastion of left-wing kookiness, the CIA, has just said that...wait for it.....WATERBOARDING DOESN'T WORK!

[guido911]

Now, Guido pipe down before you become invisible and this forum starts resembling the real America.

You mean, America the "democracy"? You are shameless, piping up at me after getting spanked publicly.

[guido911]

You are then one accuser away from the same treatment yourself.  If you are fine if that happens to you then you can stand over there with Guido.  We are only a few years before they will be waterboarding people to find out who leaked the Wolverine movie.  Gingrich 2012

Trog?

[Cats Cats Cats]

If it isn't torture then why couldn't any law enforcement use it on any person that was Accused of a crime.