MAYO HOTEL, Reborn.....

[TheArtist]

No threat, just got a bill that said I had 30 days to pay a little over 1,400$ for the 4 pics of his I have on imageshack and posted on the website.  I sent him an apology letter and said that I would add the attributions and hoped that I could send some work his way, and even that we might be needing a photographer for the Deco Ball if he were interested. And that I would try to pay him as soon as I could but that it might take me longer than one month, I dont have that kind of extra money this month. I made a mistake, but dont want him to be angry with me. I will take the images down if he wants, but if I am going to have to pay for them will go ahead and leave them up. Still havent heard back from him yet. Each set of the pics always had ryansmartphotography on the tag when I hosted them, and you can see that when you click on the pic to save or enlarge cause thats the way I saved them, except for the ones immediately underneath that I had resized to fit better on the page. So no, I did not mean to say they were mine in any way or use them to make money, etc. and people could always trace them back to him as the original photographer.  But I still should have made the effort to attribute them to him more obvously.   

[Conan71]

Sounds like he's being a bit rough on you.  I guess I could understand a little better if you were trying to gain financially by using his images.  Sorry to hear about the hassle. 

[TURobY]

I would argue that it falls under "Fair Use" as well. I might pay the photographer a small donation, but there is no way that I'd give the photographer $1,400 for 4 photos that weren't used in commercial manner and were instead used for education purposes.

[Conan71]

I would argue that it falls under "Fair Use" as well. I might pay the photographer a small donation, but there is no way that I'd give the photographer $1,400 for 4 photos that weren't used in commercial manner and were instead used for education purposes.

I'm trying really hard to bite my tongue.  It's about to bleed.

I'd never heard of Ryan Smart before.  Now I have and I like his work, but to be perfectly honest I'm pretty turned off by his handling of this.  Not to say that I've got any pending photography work, but he wouldn't be the first person I'd call if I did.

He got some added exposure to others who might not have known his work before, or at least never put a name with the work.  Granted the man is an artist and has a right to make money from his work and others should not make money off his work without compensating him, but that's not what transpired in this case.

[cannon_fodder]

Step 1: take pictures and post on the internet with a creative commons-license
Step 2: Have people use them in a discussion on not-for-profit web forums
Step 3: Demand $350 per photo used

Don't take this as legal advice, I haven't really research this issue (though it is interesting), but . . .

Show me you gained from this in any way.  Show me that he was in any way damaged.  Show me that this was anything but an honest and harmless mistake.  Otherwise show me another artist that is attempting to make it by extorting someone else.

Seems proper attribution, an apology, and some agreement could be in order.  And perhaps he can make a legal claim for payment in full.  But then demand rights to the photos, prints, and whatever else you would usually get when you pay full price ($350 to use a digital print on an internet forum?). 

More interesting question - can you sue for damages over the "theft" of intellectual property that was not being used for commercial purposes?  Framed like that the answer is no (per the famed Victor Decosta / Have Gun Will Travel case).  Would that fly in small claims court?  Together with the fact the images were digital and not utilized for personal gain in any way - perhaps they would.  Is it worth the risk in small claims court?

Offer something in full accord and satisfaction.    Otherwise he's being an unreasonably prick in my most humble opinion

/I am not making a professional judgment on the merits of any case that may presently exist or may exist in the future.  Just vomiting random thoughts onto the internet.  Also could be someone tainted by the fact that one of the parties is a friend . . . so, yeah.

[Conan71]

For $350 a pic, I'd ask for the copyright to each photo.

[Cats Cats Cats]

You should just paint his picture and then send him a bill for $1400

[we vs us]

It's a shakedown.  Don't pay him.  As CF states, his grounds for demanding that money is exceptionally flimsy, not mention draconian.  Especially since you've gone to great measures to apologize, attribute authorship, and otherwise offer to take them down.

Don't do it, Artist. 

[Conan71]

It's a shakedown.  Don't pay him.  As CF states, his grounds for demanding that money is exceptionally flimsy, not mention draconian.  Especially since you've gone to great measures to apologize, attribute authorship, and otherwise offer to take them down.

Don't do it, Artist. 

To this point, I'd say the guy has gotten well over $1400 in free advertising, wouldn't you wevus?  Of course, his PR gaffe isn't helping to take advantage of it.

[tulsabug]

Ryan Smart - meet the internets. Internets - meet Ryan Smart.

[Nik]

Your only fault was failing to attribute the photos. I agree with cannon_fodder. Attribute the photos, apologize, and maybe make a donation. that's it.

[sgrizzle]

I agree with Nik and CF. He posted them on flickr with a creative commons license saying you could use them as long as you give credit. This is the EXACT same thing that dsjeffries had with planitulsa awhile back. They went in and added credits, and everything was resolved. You own him no dinero.

[PepePeru]

how much did you "adjust" the photos?

What does that mean exactly?

I can see that you cropped his photos and that you perhaps altered the colors.

do you think that might have something to do with it?

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/2.0/deed.en

No Derivative Works — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

so basically, you saved his photos, altered them, hosted them somewhere else and didn't give him credit.

yeah...

[In2neon]

If the terms are "use the image and give credit" he should have asked you/reminded/demanded you to give credit, and you should have done so immediately (which I understand you did!) ....
Offer apology, and end of story....
Money grab, shakedown, I dont have a Roget's handy or will to go to an online thesaurus right now but you get the point....
If you did not, or try to profit from your honest mistake then in my opinion he is being UNREASONABLE.....
Bad PR for him...
Let's see whats his name again?  I'll remember his attitude if his name comes up again....

[sgrizzle]

RYAN SMART - DO NOT POST THINGS UNDER CREATIVE COMMONS AND THEN EXPECT TO BE PAID. THANK  YOU FOR YOUR TIME. MOVE ALONG.