10 Commandments to go on State Capitol

[custosnox]

I have no clue what "article" you are referring to nor what a Dawkins scale is. 

I have friends from all walks who are regular attendees and even a couple of friends who are UU ministers on the east coast.  UU is pretty cool because you can roll your own when it comes to your belief system.  Many people from the remnants of Carton Pearson's church ended up there. I also know Jews, athiests, agnostics, and yes, even Bible thumpers who have attended at one time or another. It's a comfortable place for people leery of human-influenced religious dogma.  I'm not near as enamored with the present minister as I was of John Wolfe.  He was an amazing human and teacher.

All that seems to be in common with the members is a desire to grow spiritually and be a part of a micro community. 

I thought you might have read the recent TW article on UU that was pretty much saying it was offering atheist services.  The idea was laughable, and got many an eyeroll from the atheists in Tulsa.  The real intention of UU was to let the atheists out there know they are welcome to attend, TW just screwed the pooch on it.   The Dawkins scale is essentially the level of believe or non believe you have with 1 being absolutely know there is a god and 7 being that you absolutely know there is not a god.  Most atheists toe the line at 6 (though many will joke that they are 6.9).  Even Dawkins and Hitchens only claimed to be 6.  The so called agnostics (I have a lot of problems with using this term on it's own) generally fall in the 3-5 area. 

I understand that it is a matter of community, and there have been a large number of non-believers in the past that have continued to attend church for this fact, but the vast majority have no use for a "church" and have formed their own communities.  That's not to say that there are none going here, but that a large portion of them don't. 

[RecycleMichael]

Is there an interest in attending the Unitarian Church this Sunday? 

I would commit to going to the 10am service and hanging out with TulsaNow posters...

[Gaspar]

I understand that it is a matter of community, and there have been a large number of non-believers in the past that have continued to attend church for this fact, but the vast majority have no use for a "church" and have formed their own communities.  That's not to say that there are none going here, but that a large portion of them don't. 

I think that's wonderful, because we all have need to associate with like-minded individuals. 

Where we differ is in my belief that it is actually more important to associate and interact with non-like minded individuals.  That is how we grow.  Diversity in community, faith, heritage, culture, language and lexicon are especially important for young people.  Without it you breed intolerance, bigotry, hatred and fear. 

It is not the goal of every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu to indoctrinate you.  If you are solid and comfortable in your beliefs or lack thereof, that fear should not exist. 

We have friends in just about every religion, and I love to talk to them about their beliefs, and many of the beautiful holidays and festivals that they cherish. I have never felt discomfort or the need to admonish or ridicule.  Those are the strange products of fear.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Yoda Chapter 1, Verse 27

[heironymouspasparagus]

Is there an interest in attending the Unitarian Church this Sunday? 

I would commit to going to the 10am service and hanging out with TulsaNow posters...

Is there a "dress code"...IOW, suit?  Or are slacks and sport shirt able to fit in ok...?

Have thought about attending for a long time (which probably makes you cringe a little...) - just haven't gotten to it yet.

[Gaspar]

Is there an interest in attending the Unitarian Church this Sunday? 

I would commit to going to the 10am service and hanging out with TulsaNow posters...

Would love to do that sometime, but can't this Sunday.  3 Guys Smokin' is filming for a TV show.

[dioscorides]

Is there an interest in attending the Unitarian Church this Sunday? 

I would commit to going to the 10am service and hanging out with TulsaNow posters...

my wife and i would probably go.  we can't this sunday, though.  we are going to a little event in dc.

[RecycleMichael]

I will skip this Sunday and try for the following Sunday (January 27).

I will find out about the sermon and post details later.

Here is last week's sermon on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLT8wFooVCyvu9wCD41PQBqm6bVO3qDQM3

[Townsend]

It is not the goal of every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu to indoctrinate you.  If you are solid and comfortable in your beliefs or lack thereof, that fear should not exist. 

Why would you think there is fear?

It'd be like fearing someone trying to talk you into believing in a magic elf.

[custosnox]

I think that's wonderful, because we all have need to associate with like-minded individuals. 

Where we differ is in my belief that it is actually more important to associate and interact with non-like minded individuals.  That is how we grow.  Diversity in community, faith, heritage, culture, language and lexicon are especially important for young people.  Without it you breed intolerance, bigotry, hatred and fear. 

It is not the goal of every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu to indoctrinate you.  If you are solid and comfortable in your beliefs or lack thereof, that fear should not exist. 

We have friends in just about every religion, and I love to talk to them about their beliefs, and many of the beautiful holidays and festivals that they cherish. I have never felt discomfort or the need to admonish or ridicule.  Those are the strange products of fear.

"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Yoda Chapter 1, Verse 27

My wife is baptist, I have acquaintances who are Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Wiccan, and Pagan.  I take religion classes regularly.  Often I am the one reminding others to respect the religious practices of others.  I have attended services of other religions, beyond what I was raised in, and plan on doing even more of it.  I still believe that the capitol lawn is no place for the 10 commandments.

[custosnox]

It is not the goal of every Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu to indoctrinate you.  If you are solid and comfortable in your beliefs or lack thereof, that fear should not exist. 


"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Yoda Chapter 1, Verse 27

Oh, and Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are the only religions that proselytize. 

[Conan71]

Oh, and Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are the only religions that proselytize. 

At least according to the Dalai Lama, Buddhists do not or should not proselytize.

[Gaspar]

Why would you think there is fear?

It'd be like fearing someone trying to talk you into believing in a magic elf.

Ridicule and humiliation is always motivated by fear, and rarely justified. It can be the fear that someone else's views, status, or or beliefs pose a threat to you, or the fear that your own position lacks conviction.  Typically it is used as a last resort, when mounting a logical argument is no longer effective.  Ridicule is based on the idea of reducing a person's credibility based on some secondary quality, therefore portraying them as "Ridiculous".  When directed at the subject, it is a form of humiliation, and the word Humiliation is from the Latin humilis, low, lowly, from humus, ground. Literally, "reducing to dirt". 

I do not share the beliefs of many of my friends, but I do share in the freedom and joy they derive from those beliefs. I find no motivation to reduce any of them to dirt for what they choose to believe in.

Now that I think of it, my son and daughter believe in magic elves that live on shelves just before Christmas, perhaps some day they can share that with you.  I'm glad to know you would never make fun of that.

[Gaspar]

Oh, and Christianity, Islam and Buddhism are the only religions that proselytize. 

I think most religions advocate their beliefs in some manner or another.  I doubt you have much to fear from that.

[Townsend]

Ridicule and humiliation is always motivated by fear, and rarely justified. It can be the fear that someone else's views, status, or or beliefs pose a threat to you, or the fear that your own position lacks conviction.  Typically it is used as a last resort, when mounting a logical argument is no longer effective.  Ridicule is based on the idea of reducing a person's credibility based on some secondary quality, therefore portraying them as "Ridiculous".  When directed at the subject, it is a form of humiliation, and the word Humiliation is from the Latin humilis, low, lowly, from humus, ground. Literally, "reducing to dirt". 

I do not share the beliefs of many of my friends, but I do share in the freedom and joy they derive from those beliefs. I find no motivation to reduce any of them to dirt for what they choose to believe in.

Now that I think of it, my son and daughter believe in magic elves that live on shelves just before Christmas, perhaps some day they can share that with you.  I'm glad to know you would never make fun of that.

If you have a fear like that, there's more than just a doubt in your philosophy.

[Townsend]

I think most religions advocate their beliefs in some manner or another.  I doubt you have much to fear from that.

You mention "fear" a lot.  Is that what keeps you grounded in your beliefs?