Protecting Paramedics.......from the OHP?

[Gaspar]

Na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye

[Cats Cats Cats]

Had a couple conversations today with people:

- A client who is a police officer said that a "single handed choke" is not a tactical hold.  It is potentially dangerous as it can damage the wind pipe and doesn't afford a tactical advantage to the officer (the person can use his free hands to knock the hold off with ease, unless he is otherwise restrained.  In which case the hold is not required).  

- A friend who works as an EMT saw the video (does not live in Oklahoma) and emailed me asking if it is getting attention.  I asked him to make some comments . . . his first comment was that he runs 75% of the time without his siren on.   But no siren = follow traffic laws.  He went on to say that it didn't seem unusual for the ambulance to wait some seconds before realizing the officer was there and pulling over.  He added that he'd be surprised to hear a snarky comment on an emergency band and would probably flip the guy off.


Also, I forgot to mention in my previous posts:  

Why did OHP lie about this man being on suspension?

Why did you need to "come in hot" for backup on a report of a stolen vehicle?  (why did you leave inside 20 seconds?)

Why did you need to floor it, run a stop sign, and blow by a school zone to issue a warning for a failure to yield misdemeanor traffic violation?


The more I look into it, the less wiggle room the OHP officer has in my book.

"single handed choke" ... nice

[jiminy]

The EMT crew is lying when they say the trooper didn't have his siren on; that's clear from the video.  They are lying when they say they didn't see him coming; that's right there in the medic's report.  They are lying when they say the medic got out to see if the trooper's passenger needed help.  Trooper's first words "Here! Now!".  Medic: "No, YOU now!"  Confrontational from the start.  Never a peek at the trooper's passenger.  Physically positioning himself between the trooper and the driver with an aggressive posture.  They are probably lying about the finger gesture as well. I don't believe the trooper, agitated as he might be, took out after them for a shrug.  Call it free speech if you want, but if you ran a red light and a cop caught up with you at the next light and told you through your window "I saw what you did back there, you better watch that", would you respond by flipping him the bird?  And if you would, would you then be surprised if the cop went ahead and pulled you over and wrote you up for the red light?  If you would, Creek EMT has a job for you, I guess... One thing I think most people don't get is that since the EMT wasn't "running code", they have to follow all traffic laws (including speed limits), and don't have right-of-way.  So, they should have pulled over BEHIND the car they passed, whose driver clearly DID hear the siren from in front of the ambulance and pulled over.  The trooper is not without blame for the escalation of the incident here, but I would put it about 75-25 on the EMT crew's actions.

[custosnox]

  Trooper's first words "Here! Now!".  Medic: "No, YOU now!" 

try watching the video again, and this time, turn up your speakers.  He says "Oh, you.  Now, what's the problem?"

And saying that the paramedics is lying about not seeing him coming is a pretty fast jump, since, as I've stated a couple of time before, I've had them come up on me without realizing they were there right away.  Also, don't be so quick to say they were lying about the siren.  As stated on this thread, those vehicles are insulated against sound, so it is very likely that they couldn't hear the siren, and also, they trooper was NOT running a siren when he stopped the ambulance.   And the ambulance did yeild, just not immediatly because first didn't realize the trooper was there, and then because they were passing a car that had pulled off to the side and couldn't.  As far as taking an aggressive posture against the trooper, hell, I think anyone being yelled at by an over anxious trooper should take an aggressive posture.  He had the door on the car opened before it was even stopped (you can hear it open as he is coming to a stop) and started yelling as soon as he got out.  I really wish they had tested him for drugs after this just to see what the results were.

[patric]

The EMT crew is lying when they say the trooper didn't have his siren on; that's clear from the video.  They are lying when they say they didn't see him coming; that's right there in the medic's report.

Let's see what the medic's report says:
"As were passing through the town of Paden I noticed a state patrol car approaching from the rear at a very high rate of speed.  The cruiser was traveling with the emergency lights only; I did not hear the sound of a siren."
http://www.fox23.com/content/ohp-emt/default.aspx

So, they should have pulled over BEHIND the car they passed, whose driver clearly DID hear the siren from in front of the ambulance and pulled over.

Your second-guessing the driver of a multi-ton vehicle who cant just slam on the brakes and maintain control of the vehicle or the safety of it's occupants.  Rear-ending the car was not an option.

There are only so many straws one can grab at trying to deflect the blame from someone who clearly demonstrated he has issues.

[custosnox]

Let's see what the medic's report says:
"As were passing through the town of Paden I noticed a state patrol car approaching from the rear at a very high rate of speed.  The cruiser was traveling with the emergency lights only; I did not hear the sound of a siren."
http://www.fox23.com/content/ohp-emt/default.aspx

And just to touch on this, this is white's perception, who was in the back of the ambulance facing the back.  He was not driving.  He does tell the driver (per his report) that the trooper is behind him and needs to get over, at which time he does.

[swake]

The EMT crew is lying when they say the trooper didn't have his siren on; that's clear from the video.  They are lying when they say they didn't see him coming; that's right there in the medic's report.  They are lying when they say the medic got out to see if the trooper's passenger needed help.  Trooper's first words "Here! Now!".  Medic: "No, YOU now!"  Confrontational from the start.  Never a peek at the trooper's passenger.  Physically positioning himself between the trooper and the driver with an aggressive posture.  They are probably lying about the finger gesture as well. I don't believe the trooper, agitated as he might be, took out after them for a shrug.  Call it free speech if you want, but if you ran a red light and a cop caught up with you at the next light and told you through your window "I saw what you did back there, you better watch that", would you respond by flipping him the bird?  And if you would, would you then be surprised if the cop went ahead and pulled you over and wrote you up for the red light?  If you would, Creek EMT has a job for you, I guess... One thing I think most people don't get is that since the EMT wasn't "running code", they have to follow all traffic laws (including speed limits), and don't have right-of-way.  So, they should have pulled over BEHIND the car they passed, whose driver clearly DID hear the siren from in front of the ambulance and pulled over.  The trooper is not without blame for the escalation of the incident here, but I would put it about 75-25 on the EMT crew's actions.

You simply have to be a cop, only a cop would defend this.

[Hoss]

You simply have to be a cop, only a cop would defend this.

Agreed.

And MH2010 has been conspicuously silent on this as well....

[Conan71]

This horse is dying...

[sgrizzle]

I wondered what kind of nutbag could watch the videos, hear the reports and side with the officer.

Now I know.

Being a police (or other) officer requires a high degree of confidence and ego to exude authority and do your job well. Unfortunately some people go to far and feel the need to demonstrate the magnitude of their manhood, especially in front of their wife.

1. The ambulance driver made the right decision not to use sirens (medical)
2. The ambulance driver pulled over in a reasonable amount of time given the fact there was a car no the shoulder, limited visibility in an ambulance, and fact it drives like oil tanker.
3. The officer was not held up significantly by the ambulance and made it to the call in plenty of time to spend 18 SECONDS there.
4. The officer had no business chasing the ambulance down other than he was pissed off (whether he was flipped off or not should not effect his actions)
5. The paramedic clearly and calmly states he is in charge and has a patient in route. There is no confusion, no-one else is talking at the time, he clearly ignores that fact and denies it to cover his behind.
6. The weird chokehold and other behavior clearly reflect the actions of a brawler and not a trained officer.
7. I hope I never run into this guy in the future when he's working mall security.

[sgrizzle]

Agreed.

And MH2010 has been conspicuously silent on this as well....

I'm sure he was hoping there would be some evidence or video to support the officer's claims. No-one wants to go against their own but also no-one wants to go down defending the guy who really did screw up.

[PepePeru]

I'm glad this has brought to light the complete undermining of any open records requirements for the OHP. 

Hopefully this law will be changed.  This law needs to be changed.  These types of incidents are happening with more frequency.  However, I'm not holding out hope for that.  These legislators are gutless cowards.

Who's going to protect us from the police?

These guys are proving more and more that they cannot & should not be trusted...and all these people wonder where the 'no-snitch' attitude is stemming from.

[Hoss]

I'm glad this has brought to light the complete undermining of any open records requirements for the OHP. 

Hopefully this law will be changed.  This law needs to be changed.  These types of incidents are happening with more frequency.  However, I'm not holding out hope for that.  These legislators are gutless cowards.

Who's going to protect us from the police?

These guys are proving more and more that they cannot & should not be trusted...and all these people wonder where the 'no-snitch' attitude is stemming from.

Don't make it a generalization.  By and far the majority of LEOs are good, honest, decent hardworking folk.  The problem with their chosen profession is that it just takes that one lone person to make the rest of them look terrible.  This has been the case here.

[PepePeru]

Don't make it a generalization.  By and far the majority of LEOs are good, honest, decent hardworking folk.  The problem with their chosen profession is that it just takes that one lone person to make the rest of them look terrible.  This has been the case here.

I just wonder how much longer that excuse will work...
I can rattle off some examples right off the top of my head

Martin attacking a EMT
El Paso
BART

You know there are many many more examples I could dig up.

It's becoming more and more frequent.  This 'contempt of cop' culture / attitude that these guys have adopted over the past decade.  The increasing militarization of our domestic police forces.  The increasing paranoid, delusional behavior these guys display.  That cannot be argued with.
Citizens are in desperate need of protection from these jack booted thugs.  By the time most of the people realize it, unfortunately it will be too late.  It probably is, again, thanks in part to gutless politicians who are more concerned with getting reelected and playing up their 'faith' rather than handle real issues that the public deals with.

Then you have people like Jiminy that defend the cops, no matter what evidence proves contrary. 
Well, the BART officer was only 25% responsible for shooting that handcuffed man in the back....

[Cats Cats Cats]

Here is another "worse" case

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/4156

There is a video I don't have time to find.  But they even go as far as having a nurse come out and confirm his story.  Cop just ignores.  He pleads to let them take care of it in the hospital, later, etc etc.