Brady District

[nathanm]

Just be sure to get a nice theatre. Let's not settle for an AMC.

Shockingly, there do exist nice AMCs. Not in markets like Tulsa, however. The AMC in Easton (a suburb of Columbus) is well integrated with the enormous "urban" style shopping mall they have.

I'd rather see something like the Arena Grand, however. That's a nice theater.

(And that's 1,001 posts!)

[JoeMommaBlake]

There's a cool AMC at the Plaza in Kansas City. Word.

[joiei]

AMC has the Palace 9 in downtown Ft Worth's Sundance Square.  Photo here http://cache.virtualtourist.com/1667536-AMC_Movie_Theaters-Fort_Worth.jpg

[cannon_fodder]

I spent Thursday evening and all day Friday downtown Oklahoma City going to meetings.  They have MUCH more life in the business district than we do.  People all over the place, shops in almost every building.  Connections between the buildings.  The Botanical Gardens are an easy stroll over lunch.  At night there is a conference with people downtown, a AAA, NBA, or Arena game to go to, a movie theater, plenty of retail, and people.

Buildings are connect.  There are shops open during the day and it shifts towards Bricktown / convention center at night.  There is art in the lobbies of the buildings, public and private.  The streets are friendlier for pedestrians and vehicles. Instead of a handful of sky scrappers surrounded by surface parking they have a good number of 5-12 story buildings packed together.   It just seems more alive, vibrant, and new (not meaning to go over board.  But in comparison to Tulsa). 

Lack of surface parking and empty buildings goes a LOOOOOOOOOOONG way in making downtown OKC/Omaha,/Des Moines seem much better than Tulsa.  The other key difference is people.  People living, working, shopping, eating, and spending time there in brings it all together.  All the life we are looking for (retail, grocery store, movie theater, filling in the dead space) is tied to there being people

Why the hell did we ever tear down 50% of downtown Tulsa?

To answer the question - what would I like to see downtown?  People.  I think student housing would be the best way to accomplish that.  OSU, TCC, or even U Tulsa.  Could just be housing geared towards students (not student run) with enhanced bus routes stopping by it, more bike parking, student discount . . . whatever.

But we need people downtown first.

Step 2 is infill.  Kill the surface lots and fill them in with parking ramps and 5 story buildings.  But that only comes after there is life . . . which is why we need people first.

[RecycleMichael]

Up with People.

[sgrizzle]

New rumor: north edge of Brady or just north of Brady there is discussion of building new construction housing that will rent for $1.10 per sq ft (monthly) So 500sqft for $550/mo.

[DowntownNow]

Grizzle...not a rumor but in the conceptual stage.  Plans include a mixed use with approximately 100 units and surface parking to be located in the heart of the Brady District.

The big question is...will 500-550sf be marketable and affordable?  Based on recent discussions among TYPros, $1.10/sf is still considered too high if you add utilities and any dues.  Other options in the area state they will be marketing also at $1.10-1.25/sf

As an exercise...What size and price range would this forum consider to be acceptable?  (I'm just curious given all the other residential development under construction or slated to start.)

[SXSW]

Grizzle...not a rumor but in the conceptual stage.  Plans include a mixed use with approximately 100 units and surface parking to be located in the heart of the Brady District.

The big question is...will 500-550sf be marketable and affordable?  Based on recent discussions among TYPros, $1.10/sf is still considered too high if you add utilities and any dues.  Other options in the area state they will be marketing also at $1.10-1.25/sf

As an exercise...What size and price range would this forum consider to be acceptable?  (I'm just curious given all the other residential development under construction or slated to start.)

I think a 1 bdrm/1 bath would be acceptable for around $900/month if the finishes are nice i.e. granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, contemporary lighting, etc.  2 bdrm/1.5 bath could be near $1,300/month and still be reasonable.  Go over these though and it would be a hard sell.  After a few are built and things get more active you could ask for more but not right now. 

[sgrizzle]

Grizzle...not a rumor but in the conceptual stage.  Plans include a mixed use with approximately 100 units and surface parking to be located in the heart of the Brady District.

The big question is...will 500-550sf be marketable and affordable?  Based on recent discussions among TYPros, $1.10/sf is still considered too high if you add utilities and any dues.  Other options in the area state they will be marketing also at $1.10-1.25/sf

As an exercise...What size and price range would this forum consider to be acceptable?  (I'm just curious given all the other residential development under construction or slated to start.)

Saying that price is too high is ridiculous. That is market price for a 30yr old complex behind home depot.

[Gaspar]

Shockingly, there do exist nice AMCs. Not in markets like Tulsa, however. The AMC in Easton (a suburb of Columbus) is well integrated with the enormous "urban" style shopping mall they have.

I'd rather see something like the Arena Grand, however. That's a nice theater.

(And that's 1,001 posts!)

That center was created by the founder of The Limited Corp, Les Wexner, He created it as an experiment.  A very good one.  Les spent a great deal of money to redesign the entire town around that center.  Over the years he's spent Billions in private (his own) money on that city.

Developers across the country try to use it as an example or template, the only problem is that it is not completely self sustaining.  It's built on billions of dollars of trust money, and continues to be flush with cash from The Limited, Limited Too, Victoria's Secret, and the other brands Les owns. 

It's a great design, but you have to take into account that it is a wealthy man's hobby. 

[TheArtist]

 This may be a really difficult exercise to figure out,,, but on City Data Forum for instance there are often people moving into town, and from other medium to larger cities, who comment on how expensive comparable apartments are.

My assistant who just moved to Austin says he found a very nice, contemporary, apartment for a much better price, quality, and area, than he could find in Tulsa.

I remember going to Dallas when I was thinking of moving there and checking out apartments in a lot of different areas. Comparables were cheaper there, and I could get a nicer apartment in a much nicer area for the same price range I could find here.

Now,,, on the one hand its said that apartments and homes are cheaper here in Tulsa.... but I am starting to wonder if thats not really telling us the true story. Lets see if I can explain this. If the average apartment is quality wise, on a scale of 1-8, 1 being a run down, roach infested, high crime area,,, and 8 being that cities top of the line, and the middle is priced at a A., but you go to a city where the average apartment quality wise is, on a scale of 1-15, and the middle is also priced at A., ,,,, over all the apartments in the first city cost less, the average costs more in the second city,,, but the quality is higher for the middle, "affordable" range apartment.

Did that make sense? lol

So when I hear people time and time again seemingly complaining that they cant get as high a quality place, in as nice an area as they could in another city... It makes me wonder if what I have described above has something to do with it?

I could find some REALLY super high end apartments that Tulsa couldnt touch, in the type of areas Tulsa doesnt have,,,, but on the other hand, for the same price as the apartment I could find here,,, I could get better, and in a better area, there. So when someone moves here, its the reverse. The apartments arent as nice and in as nice an area, for the price.

I have shown people the new contemporary stuff in Cherry Street, and what I often hear is comments that those would be cheap things in their city, yet here we are charging higher prices for them. For one thing, its that those are the only things of that type here so they are in essence our "high end" version of their "average". Then when someone comes into town looking for the type of contemporary living they would find in their city, that would be less expensive, it may not even exist. Our high end would be their medium to low end.

[Gold]

I've long thought the newer townhouse things on Cherry Street were way overpriced, among other things.  That was a neat idea that went a little too far.

[SXSW]

I've long thought the newer townhouse things on Cherry Street were way overpriced, among other things.  That was a neat idea that went a little too far.

Someone is buying them or they wouldn't keep building them. 

[TheArtist]

Well, couple things comes to mind.

People are going to buy them because they offer the best of that lifestyle option there is in Tulsa, "over-priced" or not. If you want it, this is all there is.

Perhaps once there gets to be more offerings of that type, and the market becomes more saturated, competition will have an effect causing price/quality points to diverge.

A builder is naturally going to want to get as much as he or she can. The interesting thought to me is, is there enough of a market in this town to really expand the contemporary/urban living options to the point where the competition forces quality up and prices down.  Or, the "range" up but "median" price stay the same.  We may not have a big enough market to do that.

[Gold]

Someone is buying them or they wouldn't keep building them. 

Very true.  But it sort of reminds me of the market for certain luxury cars. In the end, these just aren't that great of a deal.

I'm especially bothered by the set that popped up near 15th and Denver with the see through garages.  Why not put up a sign saying you're not home?