Domestic Right Wing Terrorists!

[Conan71]

RELATED THREAD!
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13634.msg133857;topicseen#msg133857

Meanwhile, in unrelated news, a lone 88 year old whacko shoots up the Holocaust Museum...

[FOTD]

Meanwhile, in unrelated news, a lone 88 year old whacko shoots up the Holocaust Museum...

Since September 11, 2001, more innocent American citizens have been killed by anti-abortion activists and other fringe right terrorists than by al Qaeda. Hate crimes are all related....

[Conan71]

Since September 11, 2001, more innocent American citizens have been killed by anti-abortion activists and other fringe right terrorists than by al Qaeda. Hate crimes are all related....

Bull $hit.  REAL stats, please?

More fetal humans have been sucked down the drain in that time than Americans killed by Al Qaeda, anti-abortion activists, and fringe right terrorists combined, about 1.3mm per year.  Where's your outrage?  That's genocide against unwanted  fetuses, isn't it FOTD?

[Cats Cats Cats]

Bull $hit.  REAL stats, please?

More fetal humans have been sucked down the drain in that time than Americans killed by Al Qaeda, anti-abortion activists, and fringe right terrorists combined, about 1.3mm per year.  Where's your outrage?  That's genocide against unwanted  fetuses, isn't it FOTD?

Stand outside and plead with everybody going into all the clinics that you will either 1) adopt the baby or 2) suck up the responsibility to pay for the child growing up.  Then start saying other people aren't doing enough to stop abortions.  Some 3rd party person telling you what to do that will never see you again doesn't help raising a child.

[Conan71]

Stand outside and plead with everybody going into all the clinics that you will either 1) adopt the baby or 2) suck up the responsibility to pay for the child growing up.  Then start saying other people aren't doing enough to stop abortions.  Some 3rd party person telling you what to do that will never see you again doesn't help raising a child.

You obviously missed that I was lampooning his outrage in my post to Mr. Moonbat.  More Americans killed by pro-lifers and white supremacists than Al Qaeda since 9/11?  He's off his rocker.

[Cats Cats Cats]

You obviously missed that I was lampooning his outrage in my post to Mr. Moonbat.  More Americans killed by pro-lifers and white supremacists than Al Qaeda since 9/11?  He's off his rocker.

If he stated in US States, I think that might be accurate.  I do not think we have any confirmed deaths from Al Qaeda on US soil since 9/11.

Now if you look at the world, its way off.

[nathanm]

More fetal humans have been sucked down the drain in that time than Americans killed by Al Qaeda, anti-abortion activists, and fringe right terrorists combined, about 1.3mm per year.  Where's your outrage?  That's genocide against unwanted  fetuses, isn't it FOTD?

Nice conflation there. Rationality called, he said he was going to be late for dinner. 

Unless we've started giving people citizenship before they're even born. Those who want US citizenship for their future children will be happy knowing that all they have to do is come into the country sometime while they are pregnant. What's next, citizenship for eggs?

[tim huntzinger]

I agree, someone doesn't know the difference.  

Catholic:: of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it

Denomination:  a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices

Christian:  one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Religion:  (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural  (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance


Within Christianity there are subsets of beliefs.  Generally there are three subsets of Christianity:  Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant.   Catholics are still generally a united group.  Orthodox has two primary subsets:  Eastern and Greek (also Orental and Asyryn, but in general).  Protestants have many subsets: Lutheran, Baptist, Presbyterian and many others.  Some groups have splintered to a point that they are sometimes considered new religions including Mormons and Unitarians.  

In case you were unaware, Catholics believe in Jesus, choose the books of the Bible, and established most of the basic tenants of the faith.  Catholics profess belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.  They were THE Church for the first 1600 years or so.  Hence, they are Christian.  Which would be the same religion as all other sects or denominations of Christianity (being defined as followers of Christ).

Catholics do have different beliefs and practices than other groups of Christians. Just as Eastern Orthodox members have different beliefs and practices.  Or Members of Guts Church have different beliefs and practices than those at Boston Avenue Methodist.  However, they are all defined by a professed belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Ergo, Christian.

And what do we call a group with the same core tenants that has different practices and beliefs?  By definition: a denomination.  

If definitions aren't your thing, go look at any census or any other web site that counts religious affiliation.  Catholic is always a subset of Christian.  The World Book of Religions and Wikipedia agrees.  How does Catholicism garner itself into an entire new religion?

Since your understanding of religion does not appear to go much beyond Wikipedia or the top two or three internet search results, I concede totally to why you feel the way you do.  IMHO this is akin to saying Judaism and Islam are Semetic denominations because of their common Biblical ancestry. Heck, you get confused over your own 'libertarianism!'  You have lost ALL CREDIBILITY by referencing Wikipedia as your primary source of info.  Ha ha!

The Roman Catholic Church only recognizes its authority as the Body of Christ.  It has its own Bible.  Has its own cosmology.  Has its own path to paradise.  Is the oldest, most powerful corporation on the planet.  Do you know what 'catholic' means?  I consider Catholics Christians, but to apply some equanimity with other religious orders or sects or splinter groups so as to call them a denomination is to call Mormonism a denomination.

[Townsend]

 You have lost ALL CREDIBILITY by referencing Wikipedia as your primary source of info.  Ha ha!

You questioning someone else's credibility is craptastic.

[Hoss]

You are a hateful ignoramous!

Nice ad-hominem drop, rube.

[Townsend]

Nice ad-hominem drop, rube.

No big.  If being called a bugs bunny name is his best I can take it.

[Hoss]

No big.  If being called a bugs bunny name is his best I can take it.

NP, I just wanted a reason to use the word 'rube'.

[cannon_fodder]

By way of clarification, your primary argument is as follows:

Catholics are Christians.  But they are a different religion than Christians.  Therefor, they aren't a denomination of Christianity.

Do I have that correct?

IMHO this is akin to saying Judaism and Islam are Semetic [sic] denominations because of their common Biblical ancestry.

They are both Semitic, but they are different religions.  Within Judaism there is multiple denominations (or sects): Orthodox, Hasidic, reform, etc.  Within Islam there are multiple denominations: Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc.  But Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism are Semitic religions - they technically claim to worship the same God (the God of Abraham/אַבְרָהָם/إبراهيم‎/Ibrāhīm, all the same God).  You seem to have trouble putting this into categories and subsets.

So, we could run a simple organization progression:  Choice (options) - Subset (options)

Monotheistic (henotheism, pluralistic, philosphical) - Semitic (pagan) - Christian (Jewish, Islamic)- Catholic (Protestant) - Roman Catholic (Greek Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Ethiopian, Syrian, etc.).

Heck, you get confused over your own 'libertarianism!'

I'm confused now, I admit.  Mostly because that statement was out of no where, but also because it didn't make sense.  Why was "libertarianism" in quotes?  I don't get it.

You have lost ALL CREDIBILITY by referencing Wikipedia as your primary source of info.  Ha ha!

I have listed actual statistical numbers.  Definitions.  Census data and categories.  As well as other data points to support to support my contention.  I then said that everything from the World Book of Religions to Wikipedia agrees, and that makes Wikipedia my primary source?  And even if it was, I'm not sure why you are mocking my source.

Thus far your primary source has been thin air.  Nothing to support your contention whatsoever.  Saying Catholics are not Christian is simply ridiculous, then ignoring all merits of the discussion following is simply typical.  Usually when you make a contention you are required to support it.

But to appease your simple mind here I went through Google and randomly picked links, so here are some other sources.  Now, I looked but I couldn't find one to support your contention, but that probably doesn't mean anything.  Catholics as a denomination of Christians:

http://www.history.com/encyclopedia.do?articleId=227134

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/denominations.htm

http://netministries.org/denomlst.htm

http://christianity.about.com/od/denominations/Denominations.htm

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Christianity

http://www.usachurches.org/christian-denominations.htm

http://www.slco.lib.ut.us/religden.htm

http://churchrelevance.com/qa-list-of-all-christian-denominations-and-their-beliefs/

http://www.worldchristiandatabase.org/wcd/about/denominations.asp

Here is a source listing Catholic as a Christian Denomination from the Southern Baptist Convention:

http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.namb.net%2Fatf%2Fcf%2F{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}%2FBB_american_denomination.pdf&key=denomination&title=033010+BB+MajAmerDenominatons&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

and a discussion of Denominations:
http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/clwhydenomination.asp

Here, you should be VERY impressed by this one:
http://www.wikichristian.org/index.php?title=Denominations

The Roman Catholic Church only recognizes its authority as the Body of Christ.  It has its own Bible.  Has its own cosmology.  Has its own path to paradise.  Is the oldest, most powerful corporation on the planet. . .  I consider Catholics Christians, but to apply some equanimity with other religious orders or sects or splinter groups so as to call them a denomination is to call Mormonism a denomination.

CHRISTIAN:  one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

That defines the religion of Christianity. 

CHRISTIAN:  one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ

Again, by definition, Catholic is a demonimation of the Christian religion. 

I think you are confused by the simplistic breakdown of Protestant or Catholic.   In your organizational tree you need to start with "Christian" and then branch out.  Some are harder to place than others (as I discussed in my previous post) such as Mormons and Unitarians in the Christian tree, or Seiks for Hindus and Dervishes for Islam (sub denomination of Sufi, which itself isn't exactly Islam).

Please try harder to frame your argument in a coherent way.

Do you know what 'catholic' means?

I defined it.  Thanks for reading before you blather on.  I really hope my logic, sources, and facts don't get in the way of your blather.

[tim huntzinger]

Not at all.  Roman Catholicism is a Christian religion.  I cannot help it if I am the only one who is right in this world! Ha ha!

[nathanm]

Not at all.  Roman Catholicism is a Christian religion.  I cannot help it if I am the only one who is right in this world! Ha ha!

Christianity is the religion, Catholicism is merely one sect of the whole. As are the Church of England, the Methodists, the Baptists, the Episcopalians, and the rest.