Domestic Right Wing Terrorists!

[Teatownclown]

Did you catch the part where that was a female doc?

Kind of goes against the "war on women" meme.

Not at all. The fact the doc is a woman is insignificant to dereliction of duty. Lots of stupid people eat their own.

[Conan71]

Religious choices should have nothing to do with the treatment a doctor gives a patient.  If a treatment is available to help the health of a patient and the patient wants that treatment, then it should be given.

Should every OB/GYN be required to provide abortion services if it's against their religious, professional, or personal moral beliefs?

One can certainly have a moral code without religion.  Who is to say this was a religion issue with the doctor, but rather the way they interpret their hippocratic oath?  And some doctors have a pathetic bedside manner.

The patient eventually got the treatment she needed (and personally, if all she was asking for was the morning after pill, I can't say I disagree after a rape) at another hospital.  Should she have had to go to two hospitals until getting treatment?  Probably not, but I have no idea how big the facility is in Yukon.  I'd think it impossible to have all the staff needed present for every situation which may arise hour by hour on a holiday weekend.  At the very least, the attending doc could have offered to call someone else in who was willing to provide what the young woman wanted.

I don't condone the manner in which it is claimed she was treated, but without knowing all the facts nor an interview with the attending physician, it's kind of hard to say she fell victim to some sort of agenda.

As to a Think Progress story being posted on this topic describing the incident, this hardly rises to the level of domestic right wing terrorism, but I'm considering the source.  

[Townsend]

Should every OB/GYN be required to provide abortion services if it's against their religious, professional, or personal moral beliefs?

When on duty, be a doctor, not a religious leader.

Who is to say this was a religion issue with the doctor.

Of course it was.  It was in Oklahoma.

The patient eventually got the treatment she needed (and personally, if all she was asking for was the morning after pill, I can't say I disagree after a rape) at another hospital.

"Eventually" is sad.

it's kind of hard to say she fell victim to some sort of agenda.

She did.  Why else are those rules there?

[Conan71]

When on duty, be a doctor, not a religious leader.

Of course it was.  It was in Oklahoma.

"Eventually" is sad.

She did.  Why else are those rules there?

There are some doctors who have a deep personal belief that they earned their medical degree for the sake of improving or saving lives, not terminating them.  Should doctors be required to perform euthanasia if it goes against their own moral code or how they interpret the code of ethics they are required to observe as physicians?  Should Catholic hospitals be required to perform abortions on their campus?  

Moral code doesn't equate to religion with every person.

If CVH is staffed more-or-less like a minor emergency center on a weekend, I can see this happening if there is only one physician on staff.  Not saying it's right, but the story is angled to imply how back'erds Oklahoma and Oklahomans are when it's simply an issue of a doctor with horrible bed side manner not being coerced to do something against her personal beliefs.  For all we know she may be wiccan or atheist.  There's not a shred of evidence offered she's a religious zealot.

[nathanm]

"Eventually" is sad.

Not only is it sad, but finding that acceptable is pretty solid proof that the person expressing that opinion doesn't grasp how Plan B and its ilk work. Hours count. The sooner you take it, the less likely you are to get pregnant.

Conan, have you ever heard the phrase "uncle tom?" Also, would it be OK with you if some government bureaucrat refused to provide some service to you because they thought it was immoral or whatever?

[Townsend]

There are some doctors who have a deep personal belief that they earned their medical degree for the sake of improving or saving lives, not terminating them.  Should doctors be required to perform euthanasia if it goes against their own moral code or how they interpret the code of ethics they are required to observe as physicians?  Should Catholic hospitals be required to perform abortions on their campus?  

Moral code doesn't equate to religion with every person.

If CVH is staffed more-or-less like a minor emergency center on a weekend, I can see this happening if there is only one physician on staff.  Not saying it's right, but the story is angled to imply how back'erds Oklahoma and Oklahomans are when it's simply an issue of a doctor with horrible bed side manner not being coerced to do something against her personal beliefs.  For all we know she may be wiccan or atheist.  There's not a shred of evidence offered she's a religious zealot.

You're really stretching on this one.  I'm not sure why.

[Conan71]

Not only is it sad, but finding that acceptable is pretty solid proof that the person expressing that opinion doesn't grasp how Plan B and its ilk work. Hours count. The sooner you take it, the less likely you are to get pregnant.

Conan, have you ever heard the phrase "uncle tom?" Also, would it be OK with you if some government bureaucrat refused to provide some service to you because they thought it was immoral or whatever?

What does Uncle Tom or a government employee have to do with this case?  CVH is owned by Integris not the government.

[AquaMan]

Conan, have you ever heard the phrase "uncle tom?" Also, would it be OK with you if some government bureaucrat refused to provide some service to you because they thought it was immoral or whatever?

That's my take as well. Where do you draw the line with moral code? And how do you defend that line in a court of law. Maybe my moral code forbids me to enable the use of Prozac or Viagra. As a driver for UPS can I refuse to knowingly deliver those products that I feel are morally abhorrent? Are Dr.s and Pharmacists going to be the only protected class?

[nathanm]

What does Uncle Tom or a government employee have to do with this case?

You expressed disbelief that it is possible for one member of a minority group to use the tools of oppression against another member of that same minority group, hence my question about Uncle Tom.

The government employee thing was a simple question. Would it be OK with you if government bureaucrats denied you services because of their moral disapproval of your request? Wouldn't you tell them they ought to get another job if they aren't comfortable with what they're being asked to do? I'm sure it would be possible for the doctor to not work the ER if she so chose. God forbid that people have to deal with the consequences of their moral choices, though. It is often inconvenient to make certain decisions related to morality. I don't understand why we have decided it's OK for one group of people to push those consequences onto another group of people.

If you're a quaker, don't become a cop. If you believe that contraception is morally wrong, don't put yourself in a position to have to dispense/prescribe it. It's pretty simple.

The EC thing is a bit of a distraction, though. The real shame is that they couldn't even do a rape kit at the first hospital! Once again, this is something that needs to be done with as little delay as possible.

[Conan71]

You're really stretching on this one.  I'm not sure why.

No, I'm not stretching at all.  Why should anyone be able to compel someone else to do something which is against their personal moral code?

Far as I know, doctors are not charged with providing abortions or care which is contrary to their personal code of ethics when they become licensed to practice medicine.

If anyone is aware of this doctor's actions being in violation of her medical license, please speak up.  

Look, I don't disagree that curtness and obstinate attitude is the last thing a woman wants to encounter after being raped.  In fact, I'd be really furious if that were my child in the same situation.  However, I'm of the belief that my personal will should never over-ride someone else's ethics or morals.

I'd say this will serve pretty good PR for others in a similar situation to avoid said medical facility.  However, I'm getting that the implication we should get from this story is that somehow what this doctor did was immoral or illegal and I simply don't see it that way.  Uncompassionate, yes.  

[Townsend]

No, I'm not stretching at all.  Why should anyone be able to compel someone else to do something which is against their personal moral code?

Her choice could've done harm to her patient.  That's a problem.

[Conan71]

You expressed disbelief that it is possible for one member of a minority group to use the tools of oppression against another member of that same minority group, hence my question about Uncle Tom.

The government employee thing was a simple question. Would it be OK with you if government bureaucrats denied you services because of their moral disapproval of your request? Wouldn't you tell them they ought to get another job if they aren't comfortable with what they're being asked to do? I'm sure it would be possible for the doctor to not work the ER if she so chose. God forbid that people have to deal with the consequences of their moral choices, though. It is often inconvenient to make certain decisions related to morality. I don't understand why we have decided it's OK for one group of people to push those consequences onto another group of people.

If you're a quaker, don't become a cop. If you believe that contraception is morally wrong, don't put yourself in a position to have to dispense/prescribe it. It's pretty simple.

The EC thing is a bit of a distraction, though. The real shame is that they couldn't even do a rape kit at the first hospital! Once again, this is something that needs to be done with as little delay as possible.

Now who is reaching?

That's not the same as being asked to provide a method to terminate human life if the doctor is of the belief that life begins at conception.  Are you saying that only people with pro-choice views should be allowed to practice medicine?  There are some who don't see Plan B or morning after as contraception but rather inducement of an abortion. 

[AquaMan]

Hmm. There is nothing in the medical code of ethics or licensing provisions that force a doctor to use minority blood in a transfusion. If my moral code prohibits it I can certainly refuse to do so with your argument. We'll just wait till some majority blood is available...look! There's some over at that other hospital!

[Townsend]

That's not the same as being asked to provide a method to terminate human life if the doctor is of the belief that life begins at conception.  Are you saying that only people with pro-choice views should be allowed to practice medicine?  There are some who don't see Plan B or morning after as contraception but rather inducement of an abortion. 

She was raped a few hours before.

What if you went to an emergency room and the doctor thought X-rays were the devil's work?

Those "some" are wrong.

[Conan71]

Her choice could've done harm to her patient.  That's a problem.

Point well taken, but would there have been any more harm in simply telling the patient they couldn't provide the proper care and refer her to a facility that could?

The story did say they couldn't even administer a rape kit at this facility.