Domestic Right Wing Terrorists!

[cannon_fodder]

OTOH, what would it hurt?  Nothing leads the people to believe you are hiding something when you are, well, hiding something.

What would it hurt? Well, it could tell drug smugglers, cartels, militias and Iran exactly how far away our surveillance is capable. It could reveal the tail number of this helicopter, allowing anyone to track its general location. It could provide radio frequencies they operate on. It could reveal how fast an FBI helicopter can travel. It might show if they have IR in addition to visible light abilities.

Other than satisfying your curiosity, what would it help? What information would it reveal that is relevant to the question at hand: the facts and circumstances that led to the Ya'll Qaeda guy getting shot?

Seriously, I haven't seen you raise an actual issue as it pertains to the events. You want a fishing expedition to see if you can find something to claim a conspiracy on. A great tactic for a defense attorney, and they definitely need to raise the issue. But as it pertains to this debate, I don't see what information could possibly be blacked out that would in any way alter the analysis.

[patric]

Other than satisfying your curiosity, what would it help?

It was geeky curiosity...I like tech...interpretation beyond that would be assumption.


terrorism?

Beyonce's 'Black Power' salute during Super Bowl 50 halftime show slammed by Rudy Giuliani as 'attack' on police
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/beyonce-halftime-show-draws-ire-praise-article-1.2524039

There hasnt been that much terrorism at the Super Bowl since Bruce Dern crashed the party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xknWZIAzBCc

OK, thats some thread drift.
Ill behave now.
Monday...

[Vashta Nerada]

When this happens to someone I sympathize with I always say context is important, and it is important to see who escalates the situation and the posture of each party. It is only fair to do the same here.

In the wash, legal schollars will recall the incident as one group engaging in speech about killing, while the other actually engaged in killing.



MEANWHILE . . . .



Heavily-armed Protesters Occupy Oklahoma Government Building, Demand Grievances Be Heard

(real boring headline: Tulsa Deputies Show Up In Force At County Commissioners Meeting)

Tulsa County deputies took a stand on Thursday, in force, demanding change from county commissioners.
More than 50 deputies showed up at the county commissioner's meeting. Sheriff's deputies say they were there to get commissioners' attention.
County commissioners say they were ambushed, but those deputies say it was a tactic because nothing else has worked.
There was standing-room only in the meeting. The conversation mostly was between Travis Jones and Smaligo.
"When you say 'the sheriff's office' and you talk negative, you talk negative about each and every officer in this room," Jones said.
http://www.newson6.com/story/31199608/tulsa-deputies-show-up-in-force-at-county-commissioners-meeting


Terrorists.   

[Vashta Nerada]

BEND, OR – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicium and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.

The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department.

The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Finicium three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/03/oregon_standoff_fbi_agents_und.html

The agents that fired were reportedly members of an elite secret operations team affiliated with the military.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/inside-the-fbis-secret-relationship-with-the-militarys-special-operations/2014/04/10/dcca3460-be84-11e3-b195-dd0c1174052c_story.html


Maybe this is why the FBI doesn't like other agencies chiming in on their version of events, such as when the Texas Rangers reported they found the Flash-bang grenades the FBI said they didn't fire into the Branch Davidian's Waco fuel store in '93.

[Vashta Nerada]

You are jumping to wild conclusions. First, your statement assumes that the agent was firing as the vehicle appeared like it was going to crash into the blockade - when there is currently zero evidence to support that conclusion.

Now there is:


Finicum crashed into a snowbank after three shots were fired because the truck was viewed as a threat to law enforcement, according to Deschutes County Sheriff Shane Nelson.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2016/0309/Were-police-justified-in-shooting-an-Oregon-occupier-in-the-back

[Ed W]

Let's see...you're driving a truck at speed toward a roadblock. FBI and state troopers are behind the stopped vehicles. You've already evaded one roadblock and appear to be trying to evade the second one as well.

Damn right shots are going to be fired.

[Vashta Nerada]

Let's see...you're driving a truck at speed toward a roadblock. FBI and state troopers are behind the stopped vehicles. You've already evaded one roadblock and appear to be trying to evade the second one as well.

Damn right shots are going to be fired.

Sure they could have just gone in and slaughtered the protestors, but controlling the narrative was top priority so you have to create the circumstances where it appears justified.

Watch the video again and observe the blind curve the ambush was set up in.

In a nutshell, the protestors were blindly pushed into a "killing box" where the outcome was limited. It is entirely possible the FBI believed it would end in a surrender, but they apparently had little control over an undisciplined state trooper who panicked when he couldnt see the mans hands and shot him repeatedly in the back.

No, this was not the righteous police action they depicted, but a clumsy, ham-fisted murder.

[Ed W]

Sorry, but you don't get to control the narrative on this. The dead guy said he wouldn't be taken. He was known to be armed. He reached for the pistol.

They all had ample opportunity to surrender peacefully. They chose otherwise.

[Hoss]

Sorry, but you don't get to control the narrative on this. The dead guy said he wouldn't be taken. He was known to be armed. He reached for the pistol.

They all had ample opportunity to surrender peacefully. They chose otherwise.

This.

I get disgusted at LEO sometimes too, but it this seems to be your modus operandi, VN.  Mad at a Rogers County deputy for shooting a dog?  Sure, most people get that way.  This is completely different.  These guys forced themselves on federal land and this guy, as Ed has said, told a reporter he wouldn't be taken alive.  Sounds like a request to be martyred.  Didn't work out so well for them, did it?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sure they could have just gone in and slaughtered the protestors, but controlling the narrative was top priority so you have to create the circumstances where it appears justified.

Watch the video again and observe the blind curve the ambush was set up in.

In a nutshell, the protestors were blindly pushed into a "killing box" where the outcome was limited. It is entirely possible the FBI believed it would end in a surrender, but they apparently had little control over an undisciplined state trooper who panicked when he couldnt see the mans hands and shot him repeatedly in the back.

No, this was not the righteous police action they depicted, but a clumsy, ham-fisted murder.

As you say....watch the video again.  Finicum never had to reach for his gun - as he obviously was doing.  IF he wanted to surrender, there were many opportunities, even in the last 30 seconds, when he easily could have.   Just because the agent facing him couldn't shoot worth a sh$t doesn't mean the guy behind him was wrong to shoot when the guy was trying to pull the gun that was in the place he was reaching.  Easy call.  This time in favor of the agents.

[Vashta Nerada]

This week, Harney County Fire Marshall Chris Briels resigned after discovering undercover FBI agents posing as militia members near the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, which has been the site of a standoff for weeks now. According to Briels, he found FBI agents who were impersonating militia members lurking around the town's armory. When he inquired about the undercover operation with county Judge Steve Grasty he was told to back off.

Just before this discovery was made, there were reports of people who looked like militia harassing locals, which is uncharacteristic of the protesters who initially assembled at the refuge. It turns out that these militia members suspected of harassing locals were actually undercover FBI agents.

Many activists and militia members are now suspecting that the undercover agents were planning to act as agent provocateurs and create trouble in order to frame the protesters for things that they did not do. This theory is supported by the fact these undercover agents were reportedly bothering locals and acting in a threatening manner.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/oregon-fire-marshall-resigns-exposing-undercover-fbi-agents-posing-militia/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6m7x3QDAg

[Vashta Nerada]

Meanwhile in North Dakota

Police portray themselves as the victims of a "calculated effort" by protesters to "cause harm," saying demonstrators hurled Molotov cocktails and other objects at them. The self-proclaimed "water protectors" denied this, though some did throw bottles, and in at least one case a demonstrator picked up a smoking tear gas canister and hurled it back at the police line.

In recent weeks police have consistently portrayed the protesters as rioters, a description repeated on nightly newscasts and by local talk radio hosts, who also have begun to use the label "terrorist."

Over the Thanksgiving weekend, North Dakota authorities issued a "code red alert" warning the public "to be on alert to any suspicious activity.... Rioters in the area are intent on creating an unsafe environment for the public."

Over the last few months, the largely peaceful protesters have squared off against hundreds of militarized police wearing riot helmets and flanking military equipment designed to absorb roadside explosions in Iraq. In recent weeks, outside observers have underscored a frequent protest chant: "The world is watching."

Wayne Wilansky unequivocally blamed police for his daughter's injury. "Intentionally an officer threw a grenade that exploded right as it hit her forearm," said Wilansky. "This is not Afghanistan; it's not Iraq.  We don't throw grenades at people."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-dakota-access-pipeline-20161127-story.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

Meanwhile in North Dakota

Wayne Wilansky unequivocally blamed police for his daughter's injury. "Intentionally an officer threw a grenade that exploded right as it hit her forearm," said Wilansky. "This is not Afghanistan; it's not Iraq.  We don't throw grenades at people."[/i]

Whatever in the world would make him think we don't "throw grenades at people"??   Poor naive guy....having his illusions dashed in that way.  Maybe he should have learned a little bit about our history - once again, goes to the lack of knowledge and understanding of history!

[patric]

As you say....watch the video again.  Finicum never had to reach for his gun - as he obviously was doing.  IF he wanted to surrender, there were many opportunities, even in the last 30 seconds, when he easily could have.   Just because the agent facing him couldn't shoot worth a sh$t doesn't mean the guy behind him was wrong to shoot when the guy was trying to pull the gun that was in the place he was reaching.  Easy call.  This time in favor of the agents.

The story slowly unravels.


FBI agent indicted, charged with lying about shooting during encounter with Oregon refuge occupier

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/28/fbi-agent-indicted-charged-with-lying-about-shooting-during-encounter-with-oregon-refuge-occupier/

[heironymouspasparagus]

The story slowly unravels.


FBI agent indicted, charged with lying about shooting during encounter with Oregon refuge occupier

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/06/28/fbi-agent-indicted-charged-with-lying-about-shooting-during-encounter-with-oregon-refuge-occupier/

Sounds like the FBI guy tried to kill first, but was bad enough shot that he missed out on all the action.  Intent (along with the lying) would be the worst they could do to him.  The other cops killing Finicum (sp?) still stands - the guy was going for a gun.