We're Not A Christian Nation, We're One Of The Larger Muslim Nations

[Conan71]

Just filling in for Guido in his absence.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world

"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.  And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."

Obama said in Turkey that Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation". John McCain was criticised in 2007 for saying the US was "a Christian nation", later amending this to "a Judeo-Christian valued nation".

Of course, the concept of separation of church and state, which derived from the First Amendment to the Constitution, means that the US is not officially a Christian nation or a nation of any other particular religion. Which means, I suppose, that the US is as much a Muslim nation as a Christian one.

It's a bold - some might say audacious - turnaround by the president.

It's also a classically Obamaesque move.

During the 2008 campaign, he skillfully made himself, through his life story, the personification of change.

Now, implicitly contrasting himself with the born-again, evangelical Bush who pursued a post-9/11 "crusade" against terrorism, Obama is presenting himself to the Islamic world as the personification of a new, tolerant - and, yes, partly Muslim - America.

UPDATE: The excellent Don Surber crunches the numbers and points out that Obama's claim is highly dubious. According to Surber, the US has an estimated three to eight million Muslims, less than one per cent of the world's total and less than at least 23 other countries.

The average claim for the US Muslim population is about six million. The precise figure is difficult to get because it's not included in US census data and many put the figure at much, much less.

But even if we assume there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it only the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world - behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan."

Some estimates puts the total number of Muslims in the U.S. at 1.8mm which would push it even further down the list.

[Townsend]

If it helps stop people from claiming this is a Christian nation then huzzah Obama.

[tim huntzinger]

The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood.  "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith)  Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim.  Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!

[Cats Cats Cats]

He never said we were a Muslim nation.

[FOTD]

Change is coming to the world!

Blessed are the peacemakers.
(from cnn.com)


Finally, in the spirit of his event, President Obama concluded his remarkable Cairo address by highlighting the individual mandates for peace in each of the major Abrahamic religions.


He said that, "The Holy Quran tells us, 'O mankind! We have ... made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.' ... The Talmud tells us: 'The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of promoting peace. ...'"


"The Holy Bible tells us, 'Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.' ... The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God's vision. Now, that must be our work here on Earth."


Amen, Mr. President.

[tim huntzinger]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world

"It is important to note that "if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world".

[rwarn17588]

The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood. 

Boy, that's a big leap in (non)logic.

The point is, the United States of America has never had a state-sponsored religion. Sure, the country is dominated by Christian belief (despite what you hear from a good deal of right-wing whiners). But the nation is still diverse enough in race, creed and even nonbelievers that true strength of America is not its religion, but the ability of others from diverse backgrounds to assimilate and excel.

I'm reminded of this every time I travel Route 66 and encounter Asian-Americans, American Indians, Lebanese-Americans and eighth- and ninth-generation Hispanic-Americans. They're all as different as can be, but ultimately are loyal to the country they now call home.

[Townsend]

The problem with this claim - besides its blatant stupidity - is that declaring the US an Islamic nation may lead to non-Muslims into dhimmihood.  "Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith)  Once a land has been occupied by the Ummah, that land is forever Muslim.  Besides declaring himself an infidel by renouncing Allah, O'bama is really playing with fire by allowing the camel to get its nose under the tent!

Idiot

[tim huntzinger]

Idiot

Dhimmi!  Get used to it!

[tim huntzinger]

Boy, that's a big leap in (non)logic.

The point is, the United States of America has never had a state-sponsored religion. Sure, the country is dominated by Christian belief (despite what you hear from a good deal of right-wing whiners). But the nation is still diverse enough in race, creed and even nonbelievers that true strength of America is not its religion, but the ability of others from diverse backgrounds to assimilate and excel.

I'm reminded of this every time I travel Route 66 and encounter Asian-Americans, American Indians, Lebanese-Americans and eighth- and ninth-generation Hispanic-Americans. They're all as different as can be, but ultimately are loyal to the country they now call home.

"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith)  How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?

[rwarn17588]

"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith)  How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?

Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.

The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.

[Cats Cats Cats]

"Whosoever gives away a hand span of Islamic land Allah will grant him an equal hand span in Hell." (Hadith)  How many other religions lay claim to such a commandment?

I don't think anybody here knows exactly how much land in hell is worth.  

[cannon_fodder]

We [Americans] do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation . . . .

The point was a bit dubious, but I don't get the outrage.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.

The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.

Wait, you still believe half of leviticus?

[tim huntzinger]

Who cares? I don't believe this sort of religious nonsense any more than I believe half the crap in Leviticus or Revelations.

The best defense against fundamentalism is to bust it wide open with free thought, science and logic.

I would hope that you know what you and I believe does not matter one bit to Crusaders or Jihadists or whomever is on the warpath.