We're Not A Christian Nation, We're One Of The Larger Muslim Nations

[Hoss]

Having endless quotes and re-quotes on a thread is a real pain.  As long as the original quote is referenced I like to clean up the thread y'know.  What case? That I have a right to not put up with hateful, bigoted harassment?

Mmmmmkay.

Nice try.

[tim huntzinger]

Why are you claiming minority status?  Based on what?  Your point of view?  Persecuted white guy status?  The former doesn't qualify and the latter occurs inside your own head.

It can't be religion...I go to church and I've never heard any of this Muslim world domination stuff there.  Sorry.  I'm a Christian, and so is Obama.  And I think we both believe that religion is not the culprit.  It's extremist views couched in religion that cause trouble.  Muslims aren't trying to take over the world any more than Christians.  Each wants to spread their own Good Word, so what?  Prostelitizing is nothing new.  Only a handful of whackadoodles are willing to strap a bomb on their body or shoot a guy in the back of the head during church...and that's not religion regardless of what is going on inside their heads at the time. 

You may think your point of view is somehow grounded in religion, ours or theirs, but I'm telling you that it is not.  It's politics, it's extreme, and it's not reflective of the whole of the teachings of either religion, or the whole of the faithful.

The bigotry is all the nut-job, meds, crazy talk.  On par with Special Olympics.  Sorry you are so ignorant of that offensiveness.

Again you need to go back to talk of city codes and what not.  You do not even know what you are talking about here.

My religious beliefs inform a fair amount of my world view and the rest is learning.  I certainly would not ever question your relationship with the Lord, but you are really losing touch with reality at this point.  You do not not even know what you are talking about.  I would love to know what part of quoting the hadith and relating an Arabic saying is extreme.  Please tell me what part of encouraging a diverse, multireligious society is extreme? Why are you so invested in trying to paint me as something I am most demonstrably not?  I am not trying to pigeonhole you or trying to define whatever nutty religious beliefs you have, or even trying to do that with Muslims.  My point that freaked everyone out is that FOR THAT MINORITY OF THE UMMAH THAT IS TRAPPED IN 7TH WORLD THINKING, CALLING AMERICA A MUSLIM COUNTRY OR GIVING THAT IMPRESSION MAY HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Tell me, Wise One, should Shari'a courts be allowed to operate in the US as they are in the UK?

[USRufnex]

I expected more it is true.  I guess I am that naive.  Here is one for the sheeple: 'dhimmi-crats'!

Here's one for sheeple like yourself:  Republican Theocratic Oligarchy Party.

[tim huntzinger]

Here's one for sheeple like yourself:  Republican Theocratic Oligarchy Party.

Fine by me.  I am a registered Independent.  I thought we knew each other better than we do.  I typically do not go for this phony D vs R, left v right bullcrap but I thought Dhimmicrat was a funny play on words. Ha. Ha.

[nathanm]

No I do not confuse my 'behavior' with others - point out where I have just hounded any poster. 

It's hard to do when you constantly edit your posts. Why don't you let them stand as they were originally.

(Personally, I do some editing, but only to either correct grammatical errors or to add more to it, and I note what was changed)

And again with the Dhimmi. If you want to get down to brass tacks, historically the Dhimmi could usually expect much better treatment than non-Christians in Christian countries. Even today, my anti-religion views are looked down upon by the religious majority in this country more than any religious view, save perhaps Scientology. Yet somehow I don't whine about it and try to claim that our President is selling me out.

My problem with Christians in general (at least the bible belt variety) are the folks like you who try to claim persecution where none exists. You're by far the majority in this country and have been very successful in pushing your views on the rest of us and rewriting history to suit your ends of calling our nation one founded on Christendom in contravention of all known facts so that you can justify pushing religion ever farther into the public sphere. Then you cry foul when folks like the ACLU try to slow your evengelical advance in accordance with our Constitution.

You are free to preach whatever you like, but keep it away from government and my tax money. Of course, as long as houses of worship go tax free, yet flout the rules barring them from political activity there can be no fairness.

[tim huntzinger]

It's hard to do when you constantly edit your posts. Why don't you let them stand as they were originally.

(Personally, I do some editing, but only to either correct grammatical errors or to add more to it, and I note what was changed)

And again with the Dhimmi. If you want to get down to brass tacks, historically the Dhimmi could usually expect much better treatment than non-Christians in Christian countries. Even today, my anti-religion views are looked down upon by the religious majority in this country more than any religious view, save perhaps Scientology. Yet somehow I don't whine about it and try to claim that our President is selling me out.

My problem with Christians in general (at least the bible belt variety) are the folks like you who try to claim persecution where none exists. You're by far the majority in this country and have been very successful in pushing your views on the rest of us and rewriting history to suit your ends of calling our nation one founded on Christendom in contravention of all known facts so that you can justify pushing religion ever farther into the public sphere. Then you cry foul when folks like the ACLU try to slow your evengelical advance in accordance with our Constitution.

You are free to preach whatever you like, but keep it away from government and my tax money. Of course, as long as houses of worship go tax free, yet flout the rules barring them from political activity there can be no fairness.

I quote a hadith, and an Arabic saying, and am called insane. And you are upset because I delete posts which are otherwise requoted by others, and that means you cannot answer my questions?

You claim: 'You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.' Again more claims without any justification. Where do I claim religious persecution? Are you reading anything that I say? Where have I claimed America is a 'Christian' nation?  What is the matter with you that you assume you know anything about me when clearly you do not?

[nathanm]

I quote a hadith, and an Arabic saying, and am called insane. And you are upset because I delete posts which are otherwise requoted by others, and that means you cannot answer my questions?

You claim: 'You seem to confuse the behavior of others with your own behavior. It's making it impossible to have civil discourse when you repeat yourself constantly, refuse to acknowledge reality, and repeatedly use archaic words you obviously don't understand.' Again more claims without any justification. Where do I claim religious persecution? Are you reading anything that I say? Where have I claimed America is a 'Christian' nation?  What is the matter with you that you assume you know anything about me when clearly you do not?

I know only what you write. You imply religious persecution by way of claiming that Obama supposedly called us a Muslim nation.

If you understood the word dhimmi, you would not use it in an attempt to bolster your argument that Obama's supposed statement has serious repercussions. Nor would you be so insensitive to the treatment of non-Christians by Christians throughout history.

FWIW, that last post wasn't entirely in response to you, it was mostly a response to this thread in general.

[FOTD]

Let's not kid ourselves....we are a Christian Nation:

[FOTD]

Damn media!
http://mediamatters.org/research/200906040045
Media again stoke fears that Obama too close to Muslim world


Remember, when you go into a public place that has FAWKS News on the screen, tell them to turn it off....or leave. Don't pay their minions to continue the lies they portray.

[rwarn17588]

Let's not kid ourselves....we are a Christian Nation:

On a related note, I just say Maher's movie on DVD. Terrific film. It was also a little spooky in the outtakes seeing the pro-life guy advocate violence. I saw that about two days after the Tiller murder.

[guido911]

Just filling in for Guido in his absence.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_harnden/blog/2009/06/03/barack_hussein_obama_us_one_of_the_largest_muslim_countries_in_the_world

"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we'd be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.  And so there's got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."

Obama said in Turkey that Americans "do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation". John McCain was criticised in 2007 for saying the US was "a Christian nation", later amending this to "a Judeo-Christian valued nation".

Of course, the concept of separation of church and state, which derived from the First Amendment to the Constitution, means that the US is not officially a Christian nation or a nation of any other particular religion. Which means, I suppose, that the US is as much a Muslim nation as a Christian one.

It's a bold - some might say audacious - turnaround by the president.

It's also a classically Obamaesque move.

During the 2008 campaign, he skillfully made himself, through his life story, the personification of change.

Now, implicitly contrasting himself with the born-again, evangelical Bush who pursued a post-9/11 "crusade" against terrorism, Obama is presenting himself to the Islamic world as the personification of a new, tolerant - and, yes, partly Muslim - America.

UPDATE: The excellent Don Surber crunches the numbers and points out that Obama's claim is highly dubious. According to Surber, the US has an estimated three to eight million Muslims, less than one per cent of the world's total and less than at least 23 other countries.

The average claim for the US Muslim population is about six million. The precise figure is difficult to get because it's not included in US census data and many put the figure at much, much less.

But even if we assume there are six million Muslims in the US, that makes it only the 34th biggest Muslim country in the world - behind Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, China, Ethiopia, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan, Yemen, Tanzania, Syria, Malaysia, Niger, Senegal, Ghana, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Kenya, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso and Tajikistan."

Some estimates puts the total number of Muslims in the U.S. at 1.8mm which would push it even further down the list.

What Conan said...and no, I did not hack into his account.

[FOTD]

okay....so we are a Christian Nation ....we're just not Christian

America. Love it or leave it.

[tim huntzinger]

I know only what you write. You imply religious persecution by way of claiming that Obama supposedly called us a Muslim nation.

If you understood the word dhimmi, you would not use it in an attempt to bolster your argument that Obama's supposed statement has serious repercussions. Nor would you be so insensitive to the treatment of non-Christians by Christians throughout history.

FWIW, that last post wasn't entirely in response to you, it was mostly a response to this thread in general.

Again just a bunch of demeaning accusations without any justification, and no attempt to answer my queries any of your reckless, uninformed, mean-spirited attacks.  If you want to debate fine but just jumping in on issues which you are dang near totally illiterate and then running scaredy-cat just stay away.  Let us be clear, you are offended by my use of the word 'dhimmi' because you think I use it out of context, yet Obama spews out a factually challenged, potentially inflammatory statement and you all argue it should be given the broadest, most Western interpretation.  You all claim some prejudice on my part where none exists and yet one Townsend used bigoted harassment you all said nothing and had trouble understanding why that was wrong.  Same kind of willful ignorance that lead Obama to try and humiliate Special Olympians and the mentally challenged on live television.

Chicken Litter, have you heard that hadith? For that matter, how do you all stand on the standing of Shari'a courts in the US?  Show the readers how broad minded you are, or crawl away and suck your thumbs like the infantile punks you act like to me.

[Hoss]

Again just a bunch of demeaning accusations without any justification, and no attempt to answer my queries any of your reckless, uninformed, mean-spirited attacks.  If you want to debate fine but just jumping in on issues which you are dang near totally illiterate and then running scaredy-cat just stay away.  Let us be clear, you are offended by my use of the word 'dhimmi' because you think I use it out of context, yet Obama spews out a factually challenged, potentially inflammatory statement and you all argue it should be given the broadest, most Western interpretation.  You all claim some prejudice on my part where none exists and yet one Townsend used bigoted harassment you all said nothing and had trouble understanding why that was wrong.  Same kind of willful ignorance that lead Obama to try and humiliate Special Olympians and the mentally challenged on live television.

Chicken Litter, have you heard that hadith? For that matter, how do you all stand on the standing of Shari'a courts in the US?  Show the readers how broad minded you are, or crawl away and suck your thumbs like the infantile punks you act like to me.

You're reaching now with the ad-hominem, of which you've been baselessly complaining about this whole thread.  So which is it?  Are you attacking or being attacked?

Poor little you.  Sheesh.