Freedom of informatiion please.

[shadows]

The purpose of  the open records was to make available all information acquired by the use of public money to protect the public from information withheld by those who's jobs and  expenditures were paid through the budgeting process required by statute.  It has been brought out that some information can be withheld if requested by the taxpayer employee's. 

If this is true then does it not restrict the taxpayers from information that they should be able to acquire in order to maintain the "checks and balances" that are essential in a democratic form of government? 

Are we on our way to dictator control by total separation of citizens from state?

How can we declare ourselves as being a "United States" when we operate under different laws that apply to only individual states?     

[Wilbur]

You lost me.  Do you have something specific?

Not all items are open records, and for good reason (mostly).  Are there some of these items that aren't public record that you believe should be?

[swake]

You lost me.  Do you have something specific?

Not all items are open records, and for good reason (mostly).  Are there some of these items that aren't public record that you believe should be?

Let's start with OHP dashcams

[dbacks fan]

I think this is some of what shadows is refering to http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13680.0

Between shadows and FOTD it's never a dull moment

[patric]

I think this is some of what shadows is refering to http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13680.0

That link is to a national political item, a local or state political item might include revoking DPS' exemption from the Open Records Act. 

[Wilbur]

Courts ultimately decide what is open record and what is not.  Being a government employee, I'm not crazy about my entire life being open to the public, although, ultimately, I don't care.  It will be very boring looking at every cell phone call I've made, every web site I've visited, every penny of salary I make, every ...........

[patric]

Courts ultimately decide what is open record and what is not.

...until a behemoth, secretive agency gets pissy about having to comply with those court orders and starts calling in favors from the legislature:

" Attorney Stephen Fabian never had a problem getting dash camera video from the Department of Public Safety until 2005 when he filed open records requests for video of his clients.
Four years ago, he sued DPS for access to dash cam video of his clients. A judge ruled in his favor but later that year, the legislature exempted DPS audio and video recordings from open records requests. "

[shadows]

You lost me.  Do you have something specific?

Not all items are open records, and for good reason (mostly).  Are there some of these items that aren't public record that you believe should be?

(We the people.......)

The Open records,  The Closed meeting, Freedom of information are flawed by any purposes when the citizens are scalped (2) by the restrictions that denotes " This information, although the people have paid us to collect it, the people have no right to make a decision that might be in conflict of our interest if they knew what the decision was".

We are a nation of individuals.  The closing of all records, regardless how this is accomplished, is like if one is a private business owner, and they hire a person to run their business.  If this person chooses he needs help he shuts the door to keep the owner out and discusses how much the business owner needs to pay for help but new salary will be paid out of the owners bank account.  The owner is restricted from knowing how much is left in his bank account until it is zero then he is told "put some more money in you account. The owner ask "what does this man do".  He is answered with "That is restricted but you can file a suit and the judge will decides if you need to know".   The owner ask "Why are we furnishing him a new car to drive home".  His answer is " That is because it is a practice started while back but what he does after leaving is restricted and requires a court order".
But I am paying for supplies and I want to know how they are used; "the judge will have to release that privileged information". 

("in order to form a more..........."         

[Wilbur]

We are a nation of individuals.  The closing of all records, regardless how this is accomplished, is like if one is a private business owner, and they hire a person to run their business. 

Lets be realistic.  Not ALL RECORDS are being closed.  Far from it.  The vast majority of records are open.

[cannon_fodder]

If I could modify the law, I would make it so that ALL records are available (with proper redactions for SS# and other things of course), .  Certain items can be excepted (as now), but there should be an avenue for the press or citizens to bring their concerns before a judge and prove that the public interest outweighs the agencies reasons.  Certainly we can trust the Court to review any sensitive information since they are privy to the most sensitive issues and personal of details.

[shadows]

When the judge has the sole powers of censorship in what he determines  the taxpayer is charged for can be released, then he aborts the very fundamentals of democracy (republic) we have fought 3 wars to a standstill and are now on the fourth.  We have been unable to enforce our systems on any of these countries even with censorship. 

Any personal investigation that could be shielded by such umbrella should be aborted at the first signs that it was not of public interest.  The wide line between employer and employee in public employment  grows wider with each passing day.  There should be no reason to place a shroud over any activity committed by any public employee within or without the normal obligation in performing a prescribed duty.  Not withstanding any and all deviation from the prescribed schedule should be included under the Freedom of Information Act.

It is counter productive to use the Closed Meeting Act to circumvent the Open Records Act or the judge to act as the lone censor of selling the pig in the poke sack to the individuals under the guise " We are more intelligent and know what is good for them."  In the end "Revolt and History becomes bed fellows" and it is predicted that our system will make drastic changes within the next 30 years as the white race become the minority.   

[RecycleMichael]

When the judge has the sole powers of censorship in what he determines  the taxpayer is charged for can be released, then he aborts the very fundamentals of democracy (republic) we have fought 3 wars to a standstill and are now on the fourth.  We have been unable to enforce our systems on any of these countries even with censorship. 

Any personal investigation that could be shielded by such umbrella should be aborted at the first signs that it was not of public interest.  The wide line between employer and employee in public employment  grows wider with each passing day.  There should be no reason to place a shroud over any activity committed by any public employee within or without the normal obligation in performing a prescribed duty.  Not withstanding any and all deviation from the prescribed schedule should be included under the Freedom of Information Act.

It is counter productive to use the Closed Meeting Act to circumvent the Open Records Act or the judge to act as the lone censor of selling the pig in the poke sack to the individuals under the guise " We are more intelligent and know what is good for them."  In the end "Revolt and History becomes bed fellows" and it is predicted that our system will make drastic changes within the next 30 years as the white race become the minority.   

I have a few questions...
We fought three times to abort an umbrella to a standstill?
Is the pig in the sack or the bed?
Are white people racing in some system?

[Wilbur]

If I could modify the law, I would make it so that ALL records are available (with proper redactions for SS# and other things of course), .  Certain items can be excepted (as now), but there should be an avenue for the press or citizens to bring their concerns before a judge and prove that the public interest outweighs the agencies reasons.  Certainly we can trust the Court to review any sensitive information since they are privy to the most sensitive issues and personal of details.

But, that's already in place.  Ask the Tulsa World or KOTV how many times they have been to court to try and get something released.  That is the current remedy.

[shadows]

But, that's already in place.  Ask the Tulsa World or KOTV how many times they have been to court to try and get something released.  That is the current remedy.

You cite the two most powerful medias that have access to the courts.  They are dedicated to inform the public which is paid for by the public through subscriptions and advertisement. One was recently owned and operated by a well known former judge.  The other also resorts to the courts in order to relay the information that was intended to be available under the FOI act.  As it is set up most information is shielded by a resource called Money, Trust or Authority. 

RM: Stay in out of the heat as you are being warned by another bureaucracy.   

[Vashta Nerada]

OKLAHOMA CITY - Reversing a decision by a Rogers County judge, the state Court of Civil Appeals ruled Friday that a dash-cam video made by the Claremore Police Department in 2011 does constitute a public record under the Oklahoma Open Records Act.

"This is definitely a win for the citizen and definitely a win for the press and the people who support open government," said attorney Josh Lee, who, along with attorneys Stephen Fabian and Clint Ward, fought for the release of the records. "Open government wins today."

"These police departments are so paranoid about what we, as defense lawyers, are liable to find out," Fabian said. "That's the whole crux of all this. That's why they deny it. They don't want us to see what's happening out there, what's happened on the arrest, whether the officers did their job or not.

"There should be video cameras in every police car in the state of Oklahoma."

Attorneys seeking the police video records of a client sued the city of Claremore in May 2011, alleging that the municipality violated the Open Records Act in refusing to provide requested videotapes and audiotapes from the arrest of Richard Stangland, a 22-year-old Claremore man who was charged in March of that year with aggravated driving under the influence of alcohol.

Arguing for the release of the records, Fabian said then that audiotapes and videotapes are covered by the Open Records Act. Matt Ballard, who represents the city, told the court that videotapes are evidentiary and subject to the privilege of confidentiality.

The Open Records Act includes sound and video recordings in its definition of a public record.

After hearing evidence in the nonjury trial, Associate District Judge Sheila Condren ruled in August 2011 that the police department's dash-cam recording is a "direct piece of evidence" and "not a public record."

In an opinion written by Chief Judge Robert Bell, the state Court of Criminal Appeals disagreed.

"Appellees' argument - and the trial court's holding - that the video is exempt because it could be used as evidence in a subsequent criminal prosecution is without legal support," Bell wrote. "There is no such exemption enumerated in the (Open Records) Act."

Fabian won a lawsuit against the state Department of Public Safety in March 2005 after the Oklahoma Highway Patrol started denying the release of traffic arrest videos. Later that year, however, state lawmakers exempted the department's audio and video recordings from open records requests, making it the only law enforcement agency with such an exemption.

Fabian, who worked in law enforcement for about 20 years as a Wichita, Kan., police officer and general counsel for the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety, said he has viewed thousands of police videos.

"I've seen just about everything you can see from a standpoint of how law enforcement deals with stuff over the years, from riding in the cars with them to being one (police officer)," Fabian said. " There are situations where what they do out there is just absolutely un-understandable.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/article.aspx/Oklahoma_court_rules_that_Claremore_police_dash_cam/20130601_11_A1_OLHMIY185005