Sally Kern Makes National News Again

[tim huntzinger]

I don't dominate any threads unless they are about river development and then yes, I am irritatingly passionate. But I understand that my attitudinal frame of reference is determined by my experiences, which may not be shared by others. That is what separates me and us other miserables from you and the moralists. I know you exist and acknowledge your cult and respect our country's heritage. I would not use my government to issue proclamations designed to humiliate you for seeing river development in a different light. You see anyone outside your cult as needing such proclamations to get us back to your structure of thought.  Perhaps you think your moral values are superior to mine. You're as weird as Kern.

BTW, I didn't say what you allege. You inferred that from what I said. And as far as interacting with morons, idiots etc. in Oklahoma, well....I think the stats plastered in the media along with Kern's proclamations makes that case. Child abuse, poor test scores, addiction rates, obesity, cigarette consumption, domestic abuse, low income, meth production etc. etc. We're always near the top of those lists. Why doesn't she attack those problems? Is this her best effort to do so?

You said that the 'cultists' you fear dominate this state.  Those people were called idiots, you called them morons, and everything else wicked and demeaning.  I just wanted to know how you can even deign to interact with them if they are such idiots, morons, et al?  The anti-Christians are the elitist, narrow-minded snobs that know more than most.  Must be frustrating when you go out thinking that the majority of people you see and interact with are morons.  That is all.  You certainly do not dominate any thread or issue, so please forgive the misunderstanding.

[tim huntzinger]

I'm going to ripoff Carlin here...
Think how dumb an average Okie is; then realize that half of them are dumber than that.

So, to answer your question...
If you're a fundie Okie, chances are, yes you're an idiot.

Well let us be certain that we are all on the same page: the majority of Okies are fundamentalist idiots.  Right?

[TheArtist]

Interesting,,, they just legalized gay sex in India and new projections show that their economy could grow by 7% this next year. Just saying 

  I think we should try to find a different way of talking about these types of situations here in Oklahoma. Painting all religious people, of any religion, as morons doesnt seem to be helpful or fair. Same if we were to do that with people who do not consider themselves adherents to any religion. There are all types of people on both sides.  There are so many different types of people who are Christians, for example, having a wide range of beliefs.  I consider myself to be a Christian, and when my "better angels" are ascendant,,,,, Its my belief that; people who argue against us or what we believe in are fundamentally trying to do what they believe or feel is right, that we are better served spending more time encouraging people to grow, and the main way we do so is by being with those people and doing and becoming better ourselves.  

[Townsend]

Did you just threaten to sue someone for being mean to you on the internet?

shhhh CF...disabled.  leave him be.

I'm impressed he was able to use a qwerty.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Whoever is having impure thoughts.  Please stop...  My stocks are going down.

Seriously, everybody be more like Sally Kern and lets turn this -197 DOW drop to a +197 bouquet of righteousness!

[tim huntzinger]

[Warning: novel.  May as well get it all in one post and walk away.  ]

lol, that's awesome.  We're narrow minded and bigoted because I don't think the State of Oklahoma should promote a single religious agenda.  For the record, I do not think most Christians or most religious people of any order are idiots, morons, unintelligent or whatever attributes you assigned.  I merely disagree with their supernatural beliefs.  And I only speak out on the subject when an attempt is either made to engage in the discussion by others or to force said beliefs upon others (myself included).  Particularly when government is used as the vessel for said attempt.

But yes, I believe people that think the economic crisis is the wraith of God as punishment for our debauchery are misguided.  My guess (and hope) is most people in Oklahoma would think such a view is also a bit outside the norm.  True, in the bronze ages and through the middle ages all bad events were attributed to the wraith of the Gods, but I like to think we've moved past that.

But you do have a point.  There are many people in Oklahoma who do not believe in dinosaurs and would have joined in every religious crusade throughout time:  from trying to kick Ben Franklin out of the Anglican church for arguing that lightening is not punishment from God to imprisoning Galileo for daring to argue against God that the Earth is not the center of the Universe (banning forks as decadent, arguing germs don't exist because it defies Gods wraith, and on and on and on).   I still don't think that's a majority, but the vocal minority is enough to have Oklahoma mocked fairly often.  Which is nice.    But I don't fault them for their beliefs, until they attempt to have their religious beliefs dictate or represent me.  At which point they have made it my concern.

And yes, I am against religious zealots to the extent that I feel religious zealotry can hinder reason, freedom and decency.  Is that all religions?  Nope.  Is that any religion all the time?  Nope.  I'm anti-republican, anti-democrat, anti-environmentalist, anti-logging . . . at some point I'll find something to disagree with on anything.  Fundamentalist religions are the only area where it is considered a virtue to declare that you are right above all else while the rest of the world has it entirely wrong.  Not because of a logical conclusion or factual representation, but because of a belief.  Glorifying willful ignorance and the absents of discussion or logic.  

There is no room for discussion, logic, or waiver.  Well, until the great weight of society is too much and you then change the opinion to stave off the loss of followers and again declare that now you are 100% correct.  Thus, the perception that religion is under attack.  When you have to be right about everything and have a stated goal of convincing other people you are right while shaping laws, policy, history, education and everything else you can in such a way as to reflect the fact that you are right . . . you will necessarily be in conflict with others.  Most things are open to logical discussions and disagreements, where they are not conflict predictably ensues.

A discussion of my beliefs is not a personal attack upon me.  Nor should my questioning of your doctrines be construed as such.  It is rude to question religious doctrines, but it is OK to have the State proclaim religious doctrines.  I really don't get it.  
You are comparing Ms. Kern's quest to "expose and attack" homosexuals with person who were attempting to end human slavery?  Wow. Really?  You realize all the arguments in favor of slavery were biblical, mostly advocated by Baptists . . . which is the primary flavor of Christianity Ms. Kern is pushing.  Or is her great and noble quest her attempt to convince everyone that her brand of thinking is correct?  Which also doesn't seem on par with stopping slavery.

Also, as a literalist, Ms. Kern is obliged to accept slavery as it was in the bible.  That only changed when society dictated it no longer popular (/lost the war).  The old testament encourages the torching of cities and the taking of slaves and Jesus himself never speaks out against slavery while consistently upholding the institution (Matthew 8:5-13, Luke 12:47 [beating slaves is ok too], Matthew 10:24-25).  In espousing the Gospel to the masses Paul continues the New Testament endorsement of Slavery Ephesians 6:5, 1st Timothy 6:1 and again in Titus 2:9-10.  Peter tells slaves to obey their masters no matter how cruel. 1 Peter 2:18.   The saving grace of the Bible on slavery is a passage that tells slave owners they should be kind to their slaves . . . which is a little bit short of abolitionist.

Ahh yes.  Hopefully Sally can continue the great fundamentalist Christian tradition of abolitionism.  But this time by freeing the gays from themselves.

A statement or proclamation that is generally incompetent and ineffectual. With this I agree 100%.  I'm surprised you also view this resolution as incompetent.

Cult:  formal religious veneration, followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices,  a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgato, great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work.  

By most definitions of the word, we ARE surrounded by a cult.  Thus, my state of mind could be excused.  Pretending of course that you know my state of mind and accurately reflected it.  Cult took on a negative connotation as established religions belittled new religions, but by definition the term is not inherently negative.

And, yes.  I have and will continue to mock the name Mohamed as appropriate.  When someone blows themselves and a bus load of civilians up "for God" and to get to get 40 virgins.  When someone uses a religions founded by a man who got rich by marrying his former boss, a successful businesswomen, to subjugate women.  When a man hiding in a cave uses the name and puffs out his chest in making threats (while still hiding), I will make fun of it.  But here, it is mostly people evoking the name of Jesus while making statements.  Hence, that name draws my attention when faith healers encourage people to skip chemotherapy, when televangelists try to beg one more Rolls Royce or home renovation from retired widows, when ignorance is pushed as an educational agenda, or Ms. Kern tries to have Oklahoma proclaim that HER religious views are correct and everyone else is wrong.

But I agree wholly, it is remarkably intolerant and insecure of Mulsims to refuse to accept criticism of their religious beliefs.

And finally, the Battle Hymn is posted.  Great song.  But I fail to see the relevance.  It is sung by the Mormons, a group that Ms. Kern presumably has going to hell as heretics on her list.  The song itself was adopted by the Union army because the most popular song of the day, Dixie (Lincolns favorite song), was already adopted by the Confederacy.   So like "In God we Trust" (put on there after the civil war so future generations wouldn't think they were godless) or "One nation under God" (put there so differentiate ourselves from the Godless communists in the 1950's) . . . the reasoning behind the Battle Hymn itself is somewhat dubious.

I hope my frank, opinionated, straightforward and decent discussion wasn't too narrow-minded, bigoted, hateful, petty or backstabbing. I am anti-religious.  But I don't attempt to force my views on other people.  When the inverse is not true I will speak my mind.   A proclamation of the "citizens of Oklahoma" is just such a case.  

Do you suppose Ms. Kern or yourself would sit back and accept a proclamation from the State that their religious views are unimportant and wrong?  I doubt it.  Actually, no way.  If a proclamation was espoused that acclaimed any other deity or other than a Baptist Christian doctrine of religion it would be laughed out of capital.  The religious content of the bill is what is important, which is why I think it is inappropriate.  

I would oppose such a proclamation from Christians, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics (fun statement that would be), Muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Taoist, Wikkans, Sikhs,  Voodoo practitioners, Mormons, Scientologists, Native Americans or Pagans.  It isn't proper to generalize the beliefs of a population in a proclamation of the State.

And when the majority of Okies are called idiots, morons, and everything else you choose not to defend these good, kind people.  Must be kind of lonely thinking that the majority of people you see are idiots and morons.

[swake]

When the cyber-bullying act in Congress passes, the words you have attacked with me with make you liable for prosecution.  Fair warning.

That's awesome, too bad you just killed a kitten

[FOTD]

So you are saying that government-sponsored hysteria over global warming is acceptible, right?

TRADITION AND SCIENCE: ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGE ON EAST AFRICAN MOUNTAINS
http://www.africafiles.org/printableversion.asp?id=20285

Read up, Coco Pops. While inconclusive, be there no doubt green house emissions are threatening your grandchildren. (Do you have any? that may explain your run in with science. Condom user!)
And then there are the Himalayas. They are called the third pole, but really, they are the first, right in the middle of the of the human population...containing the water we need to live..

[tim huntzinger]

shhhh CF...disabled.  leave him be.

I'm impressed he was able to use a qwerty.

I believe the majority of people in this state are good, decent, kind Christian folk.  Apparently I am all alone on this, and that the rest of you believe that your neighbors, co-workers, and customers are idiots and morons.

I could certainly pursue civil damages, but the cyber-bullying act will make discriminatory hate speech online a crime.

[Townsend]

I believe the majority of people in this state are good, decent, kind Christian folk.  Apparently I am all alone on this, and that the rest of you believe that your neighbors, co-workers, and customers are idiots and morons.

I could certainly pursue civil damages, but the cyber-bullying act will make discriminatory hate speech online a crime.

Get this man a drool cloth.

[tim huntzinger]

Get this man a drool cloth.

I would love to know who you are to expose the hateful bigotry you spew.  You hate the majority of your fellow citizens and are smarter and more erudite than what percent? 90% 75% Where do you place yourself on the perfect score?

[waterboy]

What good does it do to rail against these morons? Watch carefully to see which of our "enlightened" representatives vote in favor of this procalamation. More importantly watch to see who complains of our tax dollars wasted on such nonsense and you'll see cowardice. Its demoralizing when the moralists dominate your state.

This must be the quote you refer to and are offended by. Where did I say anything about Christians? I would be just as bothered by Jews, Gypsies or Muslims if they had used our system and my tax dollars to ignore real problems and instead prosecute their morality wars. This is about a religious group using tax dollars to force others to recognize their superiority of moral values.

In that light, they are moronic and depressing to see in leadership positions. Yet somehow, I am just as happy as you are. Even though I am weekly proselytized by customers who don't even know me but feel compelled to share their fundamentalist views with me because they assume that I must be just like them. You know, a soldier in the war against secular humanism, other religions and other political views. Even that I find interesting.

So, most of your inferences are simply not accurate.

[FOTD]

I believe the majority of people in this state are good, decent, kind Christian folk.  Apparently I am all alone on this, and that the rest of you believe that your neighbors, co-workers, and customers are idiots and morons.

I could certainly pursue civil damages, but the cyber-bullying act will make discriminatory hate speech online a crime.

Well, yes. And FOTD has proof!

Mean People Suck! (as opposed to those kind Christian folk).....

[Townsend]

I would love to know who you are to expose the hateful bigotry you spew.  You hate the majority of your fellow citizens and are smarter and more erudite than what percent? 90% 75% Where do you place yourself on the perfect score?

Come to a forum gathering sometime.  We can discuss your misconceptions of people.

[tim huntzinger]

This must be the quote you refer to and are offended by. Where did I say anything about Christians? I would be just as bothered by Jews, Gypsies or Muslims if they had used our system and my tax dollars to ignore real problems and instead prosecute their morality wars. This is about a religious group using tax dollars to force others to recognize their superiority of moral values.

In that light, they are moronic and depressing to see in leadership positions. Yet somehow, I am just as happy as you are. Even though I am weekly proselytized by customers who don't even know me but feel compelled to share their fundamentalist views with me because they assume that I must be just like them. You know, a soldier in the war against secular humanism, other religions and other political views. Even that I find interesting.

So, most of your inferences are simply not accurate.

So CF can say Jesus is going to destroy our economy through inference, and while we are still talking about that issue you say the moralists dominate the state.  But we are not talking about whom? CF went through gyrations to make his point that this is about Christians in Oklahoma, so it sounds like you have a problem with not only the wicked, moronic jihadists.  I let you all get as nasty as you wanted and as soon as I shine the light you all start backtracking, name-calling, even resorting to using filthy language to stifle debate.

I think that the sentiments expressed here are the distinct minority and am ashamed that you all are so willing to disparage and mock the majority of your fellow citizens.