Back at it and now...Grant to fund 18 Tulsa police officers

[tim huntzinger]

I would be willing to bet that atleast 50% of the posters on this forum would not even make it past all the stages to even be accepted into the academy, let alone pass the academy itself.  The screening process isn't a walk in the park, nor is OHP.

On what basis do you feel TN posters are inadequate?  Moral terpitude? Physical fitness? Intelligence?

The whole academy and degree thing is a scam and a fraud.  MP's are not required to have any degree. Sherriff's are not required to have degrees.  The troops with automatic weapons (both USA and foreign troops) training to lock down NORTHCOM are not degreed.  Boy scouts being trained to take out terrorist vets do not possess advanced education.  It is like saying TFD should require college physics to handle fires.  Bunk!  We need to focus on core attributes and hire on that basis.

No academies for two years? Fine. Let us waive certain requirements and see how many people we can bring on board.

[Wilbur]

No academies for two years? Fine. Let us waive certain requirements and see how many people we can bring on board.

No academies and waiving hiring requirements are two completely different issues.  One is money, the other are available candidates.

Ask any police chief across the country if they would rather have an officer with a 4-year degree or an officer with no degree.  Should would be surprised by the answer?  A college degree officer has more maturity and receives less complaints then a non degree officer. Believe me, it's been studied.

And waiving hiring requirements just to see how many people you can hire in a short time span is dangerous.  Just ask Miami and Houston when they tried that.

[swake]

Boy scouts being trained to take out terrorist vets do not possess advanced education. 

What the he!!?

Where do you get this stuff?

[tim huntzinger]

What the he!!?

Where do you get this stuff?

Nowhere.  Just some rag.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2&hp

[TUalum0982]

On what basis do you feel TN posters are inadequate?  Moral terpitude? Physical fitness? Intelligence?

The whole academy and degree thing is a scam and a fraud.  MP's are not required to have any degree. Sherriff's are not required to have degrees.  The troops with automatic weapons (both USA and foreign troops) training to lock down NORTHCOM are not degreed.  Boy scouts being trained to take out terrorist vets do not possess advanced education.  It is like saying TFD should require college physics to handle fires.  Bunk!  We need to focus on core attributes and hire on that basis.

No academies for two years? Fine. Let us waive certain requirements and see how many people we can bring on board.

I am basing my opinion on several factors.  I believe I can say quite confidently that 50% of TN posters would fail one of the steps to be accepted into the academy.  Rather it be the written test, the physical test, the background check, psych test or review board.  It is isn't exactly a walk in the park. 



I know OHP troopers don't have the best reputation in lieu of what has taken place the past several months, but the failure rate for people trying to get into their academy, is quite high.  Their phsyical test is much more grueling then TPD or any other police dept in the state that I can think of.  If you ever are in the position to ask a trooper a question, askt hem about the physical portion of the test.  It is very difficult.

I think you are missing the point of of Wilbur not saying there wouldnt be an academy for two yrs. It is not that there arent enough people for them. There are many people qualified for the job with a 4yr degree, just the funds arent there. 

[swake]

Nowhere.  Just some rag.  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2&hp

Take a deep breath Tim.

Explorer Scouts aren't Boy Scouts first off, it's a BSA affiliated program, but it's not Boy Scouts.

It's very much like a high school ROTC programs or VoTec programs. Explorers are "exploring" programs that are vocational in nature, to often see if that's what they want to do for a career. There are Police programs, Firefighters, Architecture, Health, Aviation, you name it.

It's not at all the way you are positioning it, that Boy Scouts are hunting terrorists.

[tim huntzinger]

Take a deep breath Tim.

Explorer Scouts aren't Boy Scouts first off, it's a BSA affiliated program, but it's not Boy Scouts.

It's very much like a high school ROTC programs or VoTec programs. Explorers are "exploring" programs that are vocational in nature, to often see if that's what they want to do for a career. There are Police programs, Firefighters, Architecture, Health, Aviation, you name it.

It's not at all the way you are positioning it, that Boy Scouts are hunting terrorists.

The entire thrust of the article discusses the use of Explorers in lar enforcement activities.  The very first example used is 'Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.'

[tim huntzinger]

I think you are missing the point of of Wilbur not saying there wouldnt be an academy for two yrs. It is not that there arent enough people for them. There are many people qualified for the job with a 4yr degree, just the funds arent there. 

We could get by a lot cheaper would be my point, attitudes and sick-days aside.

[dbacks fan]

The entire thrust of the article discusses the use of Explorers in lar enforcement activities.  The very first example used is 'Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.'

Let's see, I read the article and it was discussing the fact that this was a "TRAINING EXERCISE" for kids that are in the Explorers program, and a few of the kids in the program came from families with parents in law enforcement. Nowhere did it state that they were going to be used for actual raids and tactical situations. It gives them a taste of what the real traing is like and prepares them if they choose to pursue that as a career. I was a member of the Explorers in the 70's at the Sun Oil Refinery labs. I am not a chemist now but it was a great way to learn about things with regards to refining and testing petroleum products.

[Wilbur]

We could get by a lot cheaper would be my point, attitudes and sick-days aside.

Cheaper?  Really?

Lets see.  A person with a degree earns $1200 a year more then a person without one, and that extra pay doesn't start until your second year.  You've stated before (I believe it was you) it costs about $64000 per officer per year with salary, benefits and equipment.  $1200 into $64000 doesn't make a dent.  You'd have to hire 53+ officers with no degree until you started to realize any savings. 

[tim huntzinger]

Cheaper?  Really?

Lets see.  A person with a degree earns $1200 a year more then a person without one, and that extra pay doesn't start until your second year.  You've stated before (I believe it was you) it costs about $64000 per officer per year with salary, benefits and equipment.  $1200 into $64000 doesn't make a dent.  You'd have to hire 53+ officers with no degree until you started to realize any savings. 

Was not me.  $1200 is $1200 is $1200, assuming your figgers are accurate.  How much do Sherriff's deputies make? Ya'll should not be paid more than they are.

[Conan71]

Was not me.  $1200 is $1200 is $1200, assuming your figgers are accurate.  How much do Sherriff's deputies make? Ya'll should not be paid more than they are.

Yes, they should.

I'll probably severely piss someone off here (please don't bust in my door), but most TCSD deputies couldn't get into the TPD academy, degree or not.

That's kind of like saying TPD's shouldn't get paid anymore than the guy working for Night Owl Security.

[DowntownNow]

NathanM...you are absolutely right, I did miss that.  Thanks for correcting.

[tim huntzinger]

NathanM...you are absolutely right, I did miss that.  Thanks for correcting.

Yeah, great get, Nate!  An incredible observation on the issue!  Wow!

[tim huntzinger]

Yes, they should.

I'll probably severely piss someone off here (please don't bust in my door), but most TCSD deputies couldn't get into the TPD academy, degree or not.

That's kind of like saying TPD's shouldn't get paid anymore than the guy working for Night Owl Security.

What kind of Praetorian Guard do you people think are in the TPD?  I can accept the notion that most of the TN posters may not be Academy grads - even though I think that is a little high - but now not even Sherriff's deputies?  Next ya'll be saying that Special Forces have a higher acceptance rate? And what kind of service are we Tulsans getting that we think so glowingly of the TPD?  My point is that intelligence and intuition are not a matter of training, and that we can increase the number of applicants by dropping the silly degree requirement.  I do not know what national bodies need to certify our force and what training requirements those bodies hold, but I firmly believe we can save boo-koo bucks by scrapping the academy and going straight to trainee status.

I am not even denigrating or belittling or being disdainful of peace officers.  I just think we can get more bang for our buck by looking at the whole process of what we need to do to get more ossifers on the street and equipping the force with what it needs to keep Tulsans safe.