61st & Peoria

[Red Arrow]

I'm no lawyer, but that seems to be the very definition of stolen to me. Maybe they didn't keep them, but they did remove them from the property of the rightful owner.

Rounding up carts and maybe replacing a few extra is probably just viewed as a cost of doing business.  That, plus if the store doesn't try too much to prevent the carts from leaving the property, might make it difficult to make a case that the carts were stolen rather than borrowed.

[Conan71]

Seems with the gradual distancing of God or religion in general from our society that there's been a corresponding lack of respect or appreciation for other humans.

Just sayin'

[AngieB]

Seems with the gradual distancing of God or religion in general from our society that there's been a corresponding lack of respect or appreciation for other humans.

Just sayin'

+1

[sauerkraut]

This was very grim, it is believed the killings were execution style. The crime in the 61st & Peoria area is really getting bad, not to mention all the fires that have been happening there lately. Dunno if the apartments screen the new residents or what, or if outsiders come into the area to do bad things..Perhaps the cops need to do sweeps there every other week or so, check residents for warrants and round up trouble makers. It's really getting out of control.

[Townsend]

This was very grim, it is believed the killings were execution style.

Believed by whom?

The crime in the 61st & Peoria area is really getting bad, not to mention all the fires that have been happening there lately.

What fires?

[DolfanBob]

The story has went Global. Or at least Great Britain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2258720/Little-girl-4-witness-horrific-scene-women-shot-death-Tulsa-apartment.html

[Teatownclown]

I was thinking about starting a separate thread on our stupid friggin Mayor declaring omnipotent power to over take property rights by declaring high-crime areas "public nuisances." Then I thought that would just invite gun nuts here to tell me all about the constitution.

BTW, those were 4 white women. Just fyi.

[Teatownclown]

Seems with the gradual distancing of God or religion in general from our society that there's been a corresponding lack of respect or appreciation for other humans. weapon control.

Just sayin'

Line up....all you with God on your side, take property where law enforcement fails.

[rdj]

Believed by whom?

In a conversation with a TPD officer about 2p yesterday he told me the women were bound when they found them.  I haven't seen that information reported.

This area hasn't gotten bad, it's been bad.  The root of the crime and despair in this neighborhood goes back decades when it was decided to move low income housing into the area.  The neighborhood archives on the top floor of the central library have several articles from the Tulsa World outlining the optimism of the leaders touting the plan to mass the low income housing in this attractive part of town.  When is our society going to learn projects, regardless of their form, don't work!

[AngieB]

Believed by whom?

The father of the twins who were murdered said they were bound and executed.

[Gaspar]

There is no humor in your posts. I used to pick up children to take to grade school right where the World pic was taken. People over there are real humans with real uncles, cousins, parents who are living in the middle of a real hell hole. Many are poor but not all of them are criminal. The only way G was there at 1am though, was if he was buying drugs or sex. I doubt Gas has enough of those balls to venture in.

The kids were great little talkers and I learned much about the lifestyles over there. They were extremely street smart and very curious about people like the bus drivers and teachers who are the only normal people they have interaction with. No one likes it over there. Every morning I came across at least two EMSA vehicles, firetrucks or cops. Its sobering. And frightful. They will grow up.

An interesting tidbit. There are Family Market shopping carts strewn all over the neighborhoods over there. I asked if they were stolen. No. People have no transportation so they push the carts home with food and leave them on the streets. Family Market employees drive a truck through the area picking them up.

What happened is heart breaking, and not unusual for that community.  I have driven by and seen the dealing on the streets in broad daylight in front of the convenience store on Peoria.  I've seen residents pushing carts back to their apartments.  Two years ago my wife's car was stolen from our driveway in South Tulsa and was 3 months later recovered parked in the back of St. Thomas Square apartments stripped.  No one saw anything, though the car had been there for months.  No one talks to the police there.

I have a friend who is a cop, and he says they regularly "sweep" these complexes.  They just walk through and detain and question anyone that takes off running.  They find drugs, weapons, but sometimes they find nothing.  Many of the young people have just learned to run when they see a cop.  There are a lot of drugs, and other "business" in that community, and yes, there are children learning sad and destructive lessons in life.  The residents in these communities are victims of a system that provides comfort without cost, support without investment, and fruit without labor.  We pay them to live there, we pay them more with every child.  We reward failure, and perpetuate social disease.

Life in these communities is dangerous but easy. Escape for these folks is hard, it requires sacrifice and difficult choices.  There is hope for the kids. I personally know some adults that have escaped similar communities, but it was tough and sometimes involved sobering doses of reality.

Liberty is often a heavy burden on a man. It involves the necessity for perpetual choice which is the kind of labor men have always dreaded. – Oliver Wendall Holmes

[AngieB]

Names released:
http://www.fox23.com/content/crime/story/Police-release-names-of-quadruple-murder-victims/br5fgXKmv0-rpTSBCObFJg.cspx

The twins have Facebook pages.

[dbacks fan]

This was very grim, it is believed the killings were execution style. The crime in the 61st & Peoria area is really getting bad, not to mention all the fires that have been happening there lately. Dunno if the apartments screen the new residents or what, or if outsiders come into the area to do bad things..Perhaps the cops need to do sweeps there every other week or so, check residents for warrants and round up trouble makers. It's really getting out of control.

You are totally clueless. That area has been in decline and been the way that it is since about 1974. Section 8 housing can not screen residents, and if you want routine sweeps by the police, you need Mr. Peabody and his Way Back machine, and go to one of the eastern block countries of the former U.S.S.R. that way you won't have to worry about crime, the police will control everything for you.

[Townsend]

Seems with the gradual distancing of God or religion in general from our society that there's been a corresponding lack of respect or appreciation for other humans.

Just sayin'

Americans Highly Religious, Likely to Become Even More Religious, Pollster Predicts

http://www.christianpost.com/news/americans-highly-religious-likely-to-become-even-more-religious-pollster-predicts-86044/

Seven in 10 Americans are very or moderately religious. Looking at demographic trends, Frank Newport, editor in chief for Gallup, predicts that Americans will become even more religious, on average, in the future.
In surveys conducted this year by Gallup, 40 percent of Americans can be categorized as "very religious," while 29 percent are "moderately religious" and 31 percent are nonreligious. Religiosity is measured by frequency of attendance at worship services and the importance of religion in the respondents' daily life. The sample of 326,721 adults has a margin of error of plus or minus one percentage point.

Among Newport's other findings, Americans become more religious as they age, women are more religious than men, the South is the most religious region, those with high levels of income and education are the least religious, and Republicans are more religious than Democrats, with one notable exception -- blacks are the most religious and the most Democratic of any race or ethnic group.

Newport expects Americans' level of religiosity to increase over the next 20 years because the number of Americans 65 and older will double over the next 20 years. Since, historically, most people become more religious as they reach that age, the average level of religiosity for the entire population should increase if the trend continues.

Newport notes, though, that this trend could also be counterbalanced by the currently low fertility rate. Since religiosity usually correlates with having children, average religiosity could decline if fewer people are choosing to raise kids.

Another trend that could impact religiosity in the United States is that Americans have been migrating from less religious states to more religious states over the previous decade.

Newport discusses these trends in more detail in a new book, God Is Alive and Well: The Future of Religion in America, published Tuesday.

Also discussed in the book is the decline of Protestant Christianity and the increase in "unbranded" Christianity. While traditional Protestant denominations have been losing members, nondenominational churches or congregations with only loose or unadvertised affiliations with denominations have been growing.

The number of Catholics has remained steady, mostly due to the rising number of young Catholic Latino immigrants which have offset declines elsewhere.

Must be a fluke.

[lalumna]

In a conversation with a TPD officer about 2p yesterday he told me the women were bound when they found them.  I haven't seen that information reported.

This area hasn't gotten bad, it's been bad.  The root of the crime and despair in this neighborhood goes back decades when it was decided to move low income housing into the area.  The neighborhood archives on the top floor of the central library have several articles from the Tulsa World outlining the optimism of the leaders touting the plan to mass the low income housing in this attractive part of town.  When is our society going to learn projects, regardless of their form, don't work!

So true. Interested neighbors in nearby Heller Park neighborhood and the South Peoria Neighborhood Foundation have been campaigning for years to have the worst of these complexes razed and reduce the density of low-income housing in that area. Barriers to progress include out-of-state apartment owners who only care about their regular HUD subsidies, powerless and/or disinterested apartment management companies who can't make real changes, and an abundance of short-term leases with no credit checks such that criminals can easily move from one complex to another.