61st & Peoria

[Conan71]

This is the fundamental difference between those wanting to give a hand up to the impoverished and those that just perceive any type of community service as a handout.

You always seem to mistake any discussion of long term dependence as the speaker not believing in providing temporary help where needed.  I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that way.

If you truly want to give a hand-up, that hand-up has to have certain expectations as well as defined limits, otherwise it becomes a way of life and does little more than create unwanted dependency.  A hand up points someone in the right direction, it's not meant to become a lifestyle. 

[sauerkraut]

That video was good, that's just how it is. Anyhoo, I understand the cops have a person of intrest in that shooting- they think it's more than one person involved. I guess the cops looked at the victims past connections and people who they knew and started there. KRMG radio mentioned this.

[Gaspar]

Just ignore anything that doesn't fit the construct eh? I seldom open your's or G's links and I find your effort to politicize these murders pretty disgusting.

No intent to politicize anything.  It's not about politics, it's about philosophy.  When you create communities of dependent individuals you create the social problems that come along with that.

[Teatownclown]

You always seem to mistake any discussion of long term dependence as the speaker not believing in providing temporary help where needed.  I'm not aware of anyone who thinks that way.

If you truly want to give a hand-up, that hand-up has to have certain expectations as well as defined limits, otherwise it becomes a way of life and does little more than create unwanted dependency.  A hand up points someone in the right direction, it's not meant to become a lifestyle. 

You'd have been an ardent supporter of slavery back in the day....

[Conan71]

You'd have been an ardent supporter of slavery back in the day....

Yes, that's certainly between the lines of what I wrote. 

[Teatownclown]

Yes, that's certainly between the lines of what I wrote. 

Yes, it's the only alternative to the predicament of poverty from yours and Gasious' frames of reference.

[Conan71]

Yes, it's the only alternative to the predicament of poverty from yours and Gasious' frames of reference.

Let's see if you can offer anything constructive to a conversation than character attacks. (Inferiority complex?)

How do you solve the problem of poverty when you offer a sub-poverty level subsistence to people with no strings attached and no workable roadmap for that person to get out of poverty?

Please, this is a serious question.

[Gaspar]

You'd have been an ardent supporter of slavery back in the day....

It seems you are a proponent a more modern version.

The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves. – Dresden James

It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights – the "right" to education, the "right" to health care, the "right" to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery – hay and a barn for human cattle. – Alexis De Tocquiville

[DTowner]

I believe you are using second hand information to draw inferences. Kids from Country Club look just like kids from nearby Newton and Union. Kids go through fences, steal golf balls and turn over trash cans everywhere. I did it. My friends did it and we all roamed through our hoods playing fast and loose. Part of growing up. Mostly harmless.

I think first hand eye witness accounts from members and staff of kids coming from and returning to the houses is pretty good evidence of the neighborhoods from which they came.

I don't consider property destruction and vandalism to be petty or harmless, whether it's a neighbor's house or "the man's" country club.  James Q. Wilson's "Broken Windows" has a pretty good track record in this regard.

[Teatownclown]

Let's see if you can offer anything constructive to a conversation than character attacks. (Inferiority complex?)

How do you solve the problem of poverty when you offer a sub-poverty level subsistence to people with no strings attached and no workable roadmap for that person to get out of poverty?

Please, this is a serious question.

According to you and Gasious, you don't have a "workable roadmap" ..."these people" do not deserve assistance the way you portray the situation. "These people" are parasites from your vantage point.

What do you do about it? You re educate and re train them while providing survival assistance for them in the meantime. You do not rely on religious institutions to perform these functions. And you do not let a few failures in the system serve as examples to why it's failing.

[Gaspar]

According to you and Gasious, you don't have a "workable roadmap" ..."these people" do not deserve assistance the way you portray the situation. "These people" are parasites from your vantage point.

What do you do about it? You re educate and re train them while providing survival assistance for them in the meantime. You do not rely on religious institutions to perform these functions. And you do not let a few failures in the system serve as examples to why it's failing.

I refuse to believe that you really don't get it.

They are not parasites, not by nature.  WE have made them such.  WE as a society are the real criminals for creating and perpetuating this environment. . .and when it backfires on us, rather than change it we figure out better ways to shove it under the carpet or move it away where it's less noticeable, perhaps build a fence around it.

There is no easy solution.  The only workable solutions are hard, and probably unpopular.  One would assume that if you can push a cart a mile back and forth to the Warehouse Market to use your EBT card, it is very likely you can work in other capacities as well.   Work, pride and personal responsibility are the escape hatch for these folks, but if you keep them comfortable in the dark, they will never find it.

[Townsend]

Tulsa police make move in south Tulsa quadruple murder; 'more arrests' made

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-police-make-move-in-south-tulsa-quadruple-murder-more-arrests-made

TULSA - Tulsa police have confirmed "more arrests" have been made in connection to Monday's quadruple murder at a south Tulsa apartment complex.

TPD's homicide unit began a public search for 33-year-old Joseph Tillman following the slayings, but was eliminated as a suspect shortly after.

Tillman, who was detained thanks to a Kansas arrest on an assault and battery warrant, reportedly knew one of the four women shot to death in the Fairmont Terrace apartment.

Investigators have not released any further details on Friday's new development.

[patric]

Tulsa police make move in south Tulsa quadruple murder; 'more arrests' made
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/tulsa-police-make-move-in-south-tulsa-quadruple-murder-more-arrests-made

People that have been arrested are apparently being questioned about the murders, but no one yet has been arrested for the murder.  Read closer.

[Townsend]

People that have been arrested are apparently being questioned about the murders, but no one yet has been arrested for murder.  Read closer.

I admit, that is one of the weakest-assed news posts I've ever re-read.  Weakest-assed.

I apologize.  I'm embarrassed for me and Tulsa's local news.

[Gaspar]

I admit, that is one of the weakest-assed news posts I've ever re-read.  Weakest-assed.

I apologize.  I'm embarrassed for me and Tulsa's local news.

They are looking into it.