The City as LandLord....

[FOTD]

Good post Wrinkle. Do you suppose Williams and LUK sat down and decided who of the two could benefit most from the "loss?" That might be a reason for any shuffle of ownership of the asset. Those boys from LUK are brilliant and don't be surprised if they made Williams hold onto the asset for some other trade off.

It really doesn't matter much. It will be another old city hall in 20 years. The land lord is not very good at keeping up their properties.

[Wrinkle]

Unless they are a negotiated sale, I'm pretty sure you are welcome to bid on the bonds assuming you make the good faith deposit and are able to buy the entire issue; the bonds must be purachased in their entirety by the bidder. 

All GO's are sold at par or better and are competetively bid. 

I know of only one bid announcement in recent years and that was for the ballpark. Of course, under the terms of that offering, they received no bids. Thus, BOK's Foundation stepped in and saved the day. Oh, happy day.

All others were pre-negotiated, pre-sold and not open to any bid or public access. Again, even if they were, the terms you mention would eliminate all but those who would be considered in a private offering.

Regardless of what it specs out to be, it remains a closed market.

[Wrinkle]

It really doesn't matter much. It will be another old city hall in 20 years. The land lord is not very good at keeping up their properties.

You got that right. Appears they didn't even include window washing in the current operating budget on an all glass building. Same for elevator maintenance, as reported. All things considered normal operating costs for a commercial lease property. Kind of like bullets are to guns and cops. (as an aside, did you know we pay for bullets and guns from Third Penny proceeds? Just another one of those operational cost abiguities.)

Kind of makes one wonder about the big stuff. But, you're right, the city has a horrible track record of maintenance. Even admitted defeat on the old City Hall due to their own negligence.

[MDepr2007]

You should look up how much was spent to redo the the telephone system

[Wrinkle]

Actually, via the most recent operating cost info provided by the City itself, it seems we're to decide between them being totally incompetent at building operations, or that they're just flat out lying.

I personally think it the latter, but it seems they've decided to promote the former.

Still trying to decide how good I should feel.

[TulsaSooner]

I know of only one bid announcement in recent years and that was for the ballpark. Of course, under the terms of that offering, they received no bids. Thus, BOK's Foundation stepped in and saved the day. Oh, happy day.

All others were pre-negotiated, pre-sold and not open to any bid or public access. Again, even if they were, the terms you mention would eliminate all but those who would be considered in a private offering.

Regardless of what it specs out to be, it remains a closed market.

All offerings are advertised in the Tulsa Daily Commerce and Legal News and always have been.  As a matter of fact, I think there is two in there today.

[shadows]

All offerings are advertised in the Tulsa Daily Commerce and Legal News and always have been.  As a matter of fact, I think there is two in there today.

Isn't the advertising of the offering a requirement by statute but does not mean they are available as they could have been pre-subscribed for?

[FOTD]

Isn't the advertising of the offering a requirement by statute but does not mean they are available as they could have been pre-subscribed for?

Is that a rhetorical question? You go Shadows. And Wrinkle has been correct for two and a half years on this very questionable deal. FB wasn't far off, on this issue, either.

Next up to bat, the ballpark.

[TulsaSooner]

Isn't the advertising of the offering a requirement by statute but does not mean they are available as they could have been pre-subscribed for?

I don't know what you mean by "presubscribed for".  All I know is the City accepts bids for the bonds on the day of sale and low interest bidder wins.  I think all of the bidders and the bids they submitted go to Council for approval shortly thereafter.

[Wrinkle]

All offerings are advertised in the Tulsa Daily Commerce and Legal News and always have been.  As a matter of fact, I think there is two in there today.

O.K., just for fun...let's follow the two you say are posted today and see what happens.

Can you post links to the notices here?

[shadows]

I don't know what you mean by "presubscribed for".  All I know is the City accepts bids for the bonds on the day of sale and low interest bidder wins.  I think all of the bidders and the bids they submitted go to Council for approval shortly thereafter.

Maybe I should have used pre-syndicate bid.   Any way you look at it it is a closed transaction from the time these thing are conjured up.  It seems like a conspiracy tracing back to the TPS delinquency in failing to teach math.  The total cost of the project is in most cases twice or more the cost to the working poor that is not advertised as the bonds true value in the purchase but is added in the sale of the bonds.

The interest rate and its value is not known until after the bonds are sold unless a specific rate is established. Of course bonds are bundled where bidder takes all leaving out the public investmenting.

[TulsaSooner]

O.K., just for fun...let's follow the two you say are posted today and see what happens.

Can you post links to the notices here?

I'm not sure you can see their notices online unless you have a subscription to the site/newsletter which I do not.

[shadows]

I'm not sure you can see their notices online unless you have a subscription to the site/newsletter which I do not.

It would be easily to assume that anytime a citizen opens a door to get information they find the door's entrance is bricked up.  This is leading to more apathy and reluctance on the part of the voter to exercise their right to vote.  In the past it has contributed to the failing of our system of government.   

[Wrinkle]

I'm not sure you can see their notices online unless you have a subscription to the site/newsletter which I do not.

O.K.

So, just for the sake of argument, would you consider "public notices" which require a paid subscription to access "public"?

While I can't necessarily fault the publications themselves for wanting subscribers, I can question the validity of claiming it to be "public" posting of legal notices.

That would seem a fault in the regulation concerning legitimate postings of public notices. Could be that needs to be modified somewhat so access isn't limited to those who can afford a subscription, or even remember the names of the publications and where to get one?

ACLU would be screaming at the top of their lungs if a library required a paid subscription, or voter registration (just look at the fuss over showing an I.D.).

Public Notices should be public. Either that, or they're not.

[TulsaSooner]

O.K.

So, just for the sake of argument, would you consider "public notices" which require a paid subscription to access "public"?

While I can't necessarily fault the publications themselves for wanting subscribers, I can question the validity of claiming it to be "public" posting of legal notices.

That would seem a fault in the regulation concerning legitimate postings of public notices. Could be that needs to be modified somewhat so access isn't limited to those who can afford a subscription, or even remember the names of the publications and where to get one?

ACLU would be screaming at the top of their lungs if a library required a paid subscription, or voter registration (just look at the fuss over showing an I.D.).

Public Notices should be public. Either that, or they're not.

I would consider it public notice, yes.  It has to be published somewhere and most every publication requires a subscription.  The information is also posted on the Council agendas which are free to view, as are the meetings to attend.