Coburn's Brain

[TheArtist]

I'll say this yet again, we do have the best medical technology available anywhere on the planet to anyone who wishes to take advantage of it.  Our problem as Americans is: too many take a reactive approach to their health instead of a proactive approach, we eat like total crap, have bad habits, and live sedentary lifestyles.  We also subsidize the cost of healthcare and prescription meds in other countries by the rates we pay for healthcare, just like all other foreign aid we dole out.

Check longevity tables by country, then check obesity tables by country.  You will find our ranking as an obese country is roughly the inverse of our ranking on longevity.

The idea that we have a crappy healthcare system is the biggest load of bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices you could ever dream up.

If people would take more self-responsibility in healthier lifestyles and better habits, our healthcare system wouldn't have the massive burdens placed on it from heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

Well then its interesting that so many "entitlement mentality liberal" places are so often the ones with the most self-responsible, healthy lifestyles? Are people with a certain lifestyle more or less predisposed to think of healthcare as an entitlement?  Are there a basic underlying attitudes, habits, etc. for both?  

Why is it that the most conservative areas of the US are also pretty much the most unhealthy ones?  Look at an obesity map by county, and then the voting red-blue county map, as a for instance.  Those who seem to preach the most about personal responsibility and less government actually seem to be the areas that have the most,,, least "personally responsible", people in them.  

But, to some extent I think its besides the point that people here "choose to be more unhealthy", our system still costs us more regardless.  It does cost us more because we are more sick, but it is also true that part of our being more sick is because it costs us more for medical care, and or people who cant, or dont choose to afford it, dont get the healthcare, (much of it preventative) in the first place. Heaven forbid we let some "entitled loser" get healthcare I the responsible, hardworking taxpayer has paid for,,, when I can pay more for it (they are gonna get attention one way or the other) when they are really sick later?  

Reminds me of kids, they are gonna get attention one way or the other, whether it be good attention now, or bad attention later. They are gonna get attention, and unfortunately the "later" attention almost always costs everyone more.  

Bad people are that way too, WE, the good people, are gonna have to give them "attention" sooner or later. Whether it be time or money, through government, church, private means, etc.   Attention---Entitlement---Whatever lol.  We are either all in this together as a society knowing we are going to have to give something,,, or each an island, turning the failures away and telling them to frack off and die, (or at our most generous, admonishing them to "Be responsible or else! and there, we have done our job the rest is up to them by golly lol)


An interesting read, especially each interview section.  

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/

[swake]

Coburn wouldn't know the first thing about this bill's impact on Medicare and Medicare, because he didn't accept them as payment in his medical practice in Muskogee. He only takes premium paying customers. It's all about the money, and how much he can make.

[USRufnex]

The idea that we have a crappy healthcare system is the biggest load of bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices you could ever dream up.

If people would take more self-responsibility in healthier lifestyles and better habits, our healthcare system wouldn't have the massive burdens placed on it from heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

Well, we have the best healthcare system in the world for "the haves" and one of the worst for the have-nots.

Would a "healthier lifestyle and better habits" have spared me from colon cancer?
Please let the one without sin cast the first stone......

http://coloncancer.about.com/od/researcharticles/a/04202004.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090224163555.htm

All I can say is how incredibly lucky I was to have health insurance at the time I first noticed symptoms that could have been anything (hemorrhoids, etc)....... if I had these same symptoms 3-5 years ago, I would have not sought medical attention and would have hoped for the best.

And I'd be DEAD.

If you call my firsthand experiences "bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices," then you're a complete and utterly craven wingnut who doesn't give a "smile" about anybody other than your own greedy, selfish, for-profit-healthcare-uber-alles, head-in-the-sand, anti-gubmint dittohead friends....

[guido911]

If you call my firsthand experiences "bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices," then you're a complete and utterly craven wingnut who doesn't give a "smile" about anybody other than your own greedy, selfish, for-profit-healthcare-uber-alles, head-in-the-sand, anti-gubmint dittohead friends....

Translation:  "Hey Haves, you must pay for your AND my health care".

[USRufnex]

I am a "HAVE" right now, dumba$$.
And I was just as good of a person and just as hard of a worker when I was a "have-not."

I have friends/family who have done without health insurance.... and they work full time.

God forbid I mention "workers" --- it makes gweed think I'm a hippy-Stalinist.  

[rwarn17588]

If people would take more self-responsibility in healthier lifestyles and better habits, our healthcare system wouldn't have the massive burdens placed on it from heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

Yeah, that slug Lance Armstrong and his sedentary lifestyle were totally responsible for his getting cancer. 

[Hoss]

Yeah, that slug Lance Armstrong and his sedentary lifestyle were totally responsible for his getting cancer. 

Yep, like my mom was responsible for the blunt-force trauma to her head when I was a senior in high school, that racked up $300,000 dollars in medical bills (dad's insurance in 1985 was awesome - Aetna, believe it or not).  Had this happened now, they would have cut my dad off and likely he would have had to declare bankruptcy.  Lucky for him his total out of pocket expense when it came to my mothers medical bills was not even in the four-figure amount.

You spin me right round, baby right round.... 

[Conan71]

Well, we have the best healthcare system in the world for "the haves" and one of the worst for the have-nots.

Would a "healthier lifestyle and better habits" have spared me from colon cancer?
Please let the one without sin cast the first stone......

http://coloncancer.about.com/od/researcharticles/a/04202004.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090224163555.htm

All I can say is how incredibly lucky I was to have health insurance at the time I first noticed symptoms that could have been anything (hemorrhoids, etc)....... if I had these same symptoms 3-5 years ago, I would have not sought medical attention and would have hoped for the best.

And I'd be DEAD.

If you call my firsthand experiences "bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices," then you're a complete and utterly craven wingnut who doesn't give a "smile" about anybody other than your own greedy, selfish, for-profit-healthcare-uber-alles, head-in-the-sand, anti-gubmint dittohead friends....

The sole point of my post was in response to William bringing up the tired saw of the United States having a crappy healthcare system.  It simply does not compute.  We don't have crappy quality of health care, we have people with apathetic attitudes toward their health and billing and payment systems which are already a questionable hybrid of a public/government venture that everyone is clamoring for control of and none of them have altruistic reasons to control it.  Government doesn't have a profit motive, but those who make the laws of our government do.

Ruf, I understand your particular sensitivity to this issue, it goes without saying.  In no way would I ever imply that your experience is propaganda.  However, there are many men and women in Congress who are using stories like yours as propaganda, not for altruistic reasons, but to retain power and to please those who keep money flowing into their coffers.  They don't really give a crap about your health care or mine, it's a campaign promise- nothing more nothing less.  They and theirs are covered by a great health care plan for life once they've been a member of Club 535.  Here's the scary part- should a bunch of lawyers and MBA's really be deciding what's best for yours or my health care?  I don't think they are qualified to.  Tom Coburn knows far more about health care than any other Senator, but even his intentions are questionable on the issue as he accepts campaign contributions.

Not to minimize your experience, but you did find your cancer early enough for a successful outcome so far, yes?  Did that result from any action on the part of the government? Likely not, perhaps a reg or two from the FDA on meds you were given at the time and on the equipment used to diagnose you. (Yes, I've had "the hose" twice. Not fun).  You are still with us and living a healthy and productive life?  You certainly have not skipped a beat with your snark and wit.  

Look, I don't care to get into a big schlong contest with you here, but it looks as if I could be getting ready for my fourth surgery in the last 8 years by the end of this month.  I also have had two expensive trips to the ER, one of which resulted in a two-day admission as well during that time so I do have a few observations of my own as to how health care is done these days and how it could be improved without government outright stepping in to run it.

One thing I've noticed from my knee surgeries is that I think there are about three extra worthless visits crammed in prior to the surgery than needs be.  These were nothing more than cattle calls to up the billing to the insurance company.  I know it, my ortho knows it, and the damn insurance company knows this, yet it's an allowable practice.  I also question the practice of doctors owning "specialty" hospitals and diagnostic centers separate from their primary practice location.  That results in a lot of "steering" and being able to diagnose unnecessary MRI's and other costly tests, simply because they know the benefit payor will pony up.  On the flip side, if the government steps in and restricts such tests, people like you might have not gotten the proper screening to find your condition in time.  

Take a look at your statement(s) the next time you go to the ER.  When I dislocated my right shoulder last spring (I tried to have my next door neighbor set it at first to avoid the cost- bad idea, there was not enough whiskey or Demerol on the block to kill that pain) I had bills from St. John, the anesthesiologist, the radiologist, an orthopaedist, and one or two others I can't remember.  It's a feeding frenzy.  How many of those people were necessary which were in my room in the ER- no idea, but perhaps insurance companies should take a long look at what they really should pay for with every hospitalization.

Perhaps also, if hospitals didn't have to cover their P & L statements from treating people who had no regard to their health their entire life until some catastrophic $500,000 illness befell them with no insurance, it wouldn't be necessary for people like you and I to pick up the tab via high insurance premiums, high deductibles and a system which allows different specialists to glom on to our case when we are sick. That's yet one more reason we pay more for our healthcare than any other country.

Please don't mis-read this and think I believe anyone should be excluded from health care, that's not my point.  My point is, other countries have a far more proactive approach to health which minimizes their dependence on and therefore costs of healthcare.  Take a look at all the open air markets with whole foods in other countries which are deemed unsanitary here (amazing, they are countries with longer life spans) those countries have lower incidences of heart disease, cancer, and diabetes- three classes of disease which eat up a lot of private and public resources in our medical community. We consume more processed and preserved foods than any other country.  We also eat out a whole lot more which means we put our nutritional needs in the hands of others with virtually every meal.  What I'm trying to say is there needs to be a change in attitude on the part of individuals regarding their approach to health that the government can't make a dent in regardless of how much control it assumes of the health care system.

And finally, the most laughable point is that the 30 or 40 million or whatever they make up next week of people without healthcare is total BS.  It's there for the taking, health care is already priced to cover the cost of the uninsured and poor on the backs of the insurance companies, cash payers, and the government. If I had no source of income and no insurance and I got run over crossing the BA expressway, I'd get an ambulance ride to the hospital and all the care I needed until healthy again.  And if I had a permanent disability from it, I'd be entitled to even more benefits.

Sorry, this argument of the government needing to control all of health care is never going to pass muster with me.  They already control a huge chunk via FDA and other regulatory agencies and Medicare/Medicaid and many state-run programs and according to many of you it's a total cluster love now. Can't wait to see what it'd look like with even more intervention.

[Conan71]

Yeah, that slug Lance Armstrong and his sedentary lifestyle were totally responsible for his getting cancer. 

What a total mis-read just for the sake of being a smart-donkey and you know it.  Yep there are people who through no fault of their own wind up with a catastrophic illness.  The sad part is, they pay through the nose because so many resources for people who take a positive approach to their health and wind up in such circumstances get eaten up by those who don't and wound up on dialysis or expensive COPD meds because they wouldn't get off their donkey.

I gave heavily to friends of mine riding Livestrong this year and pedaled my donkey off for MS research and will do two MS rides next year in addition to the Livestrong Challenge.  All things which go to help medical research in a way which is a preferable approach than being entirely dependent on the government for funding research.  What proactive approach are you making or do you just prefer to contribute snark and half-baked opinion? 

[rwarn17588]

What a total mis-read just for the sake of being a smart-donkey and you know it.  Yep there are people who through no fault of their own wind up with a catastrophic illness.  The sad part is, they pay through the nose because so many resources for people who take a positive approach to their health and wind up in such circumstances get eaten up by those who don't and wound up on dialysis or expensive COPD meds because they wouldn't get off their donkey.

You honestly think that even if the country were more physically active and healthier, that people who have a catastrophic illness through no fault of their own still wouldn't be paying through the nose?

If you believe that, I have some oceanside property in Oakhurst to sell you.

[USRufnex]

Conan, this reminds me of your arguments against the River Tax.
Instead of judging whether the finished product is worthy of your vote, you nitpick the process.

You hate political sausage making.  Fair enough.

But I would argue that supporting the status quo in this healthcare debate is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Unfortunately, it looks like Obama's campaign promises on healthcare will be broken.  We're gonna end up with a congressional version of mandated coverage for young people in their 20s that will more closely resemble Romneycare and Hillarycare than the healthcare proposals and compromises campaigned on by Barack Obama.

But I will NOT make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Progress is progress, and making blanket statements about "bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices" does absolutely NOTHING to advance the real arguments over access to healthcare and control of costs.  

I will trust the cobbling together of Democrat legislation from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid over the misguided values of Okie conservative elitist class clowns like Tom Coburn and Jim Inhofe.

Argue healthcare policy like a Teabagger; and I'll treat you like a teabagger...    

[Conan71]

You honestly think that even if the country were more physically active and healthier, that people who have a catastrophic illness through no fault of their own still wouldn't be paying through the nose?

If you believe that, I have some oceanside property in Oakhurst to sell you.

Simple economics.  Take away those cases who wind up in the P & L file that the rest of the healthcare rates reflect and health care costs will go down.  Every product you purchase is priced throughout the supply chain to account for losses and spoilage.  You pay a higher price as a result so that manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers can turn a profit. 

A proactive approach lowers dependence on the system, lowers the proportionate number of non-payors for services, and therefore lowers costs for everyone involved.

How much is that lot in Oakhurst anyhow?  Is it next to a meth lab?

[Conan71]

Conan, this reminds me of your arguments against the River Tax.
Instead of judging whether the finished product is worthy of your vote, you nitpick the process.

You hate political sausage making.  Fair enough.

But I would argue that supporting the status quo in this healthcare debate is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Unfortunately, it looks like Obama's campaign promises on healthcare will be broken.  We're gonna end up with a congressional version of "mandated coverage" for young people in their 20s that will more closely resemble Romneycare and Hillarycare than the healthcare proposals and compromises campaigned on by Barack Obama.

But I will NOT make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Progress is progress, and making blanket statements about "bullshit propaganda being slung by entitlement-mentality liberals and their media accomplices" does absolutely NOTHING to advance the real arguments over access to healthcare and control of costs. 

I will trust the cobbling together of Democrat legislation from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid over the misguided values of Okie conservative elitist class clowns like Tom Coburn and Jim Inhofe.

Argue healthcare policy like a Teabagger; and I'll treat you like a teabagger...    

"Cobbled together" is exactly what we don't need.  Healthcare is already way too big and deft without even more government internvention.  The status quo is preferable to me rather than ramming a bill through within a year just to say it's been done.  I also don't like the amount of pork being passed around to make this pile pallatable.  If it's worthwhile, it would stand on it's own.  If there is a viable, workable solution which improves access (though I still argue access is there for anyone who wants it and there is a mechanism to pay for it) I'm all for change in the system, Ruf.  However, the rich are still going to have more options available than anyone. That's just the way it works, right wrong or otherwise.

Perhaps I get a bit alarmed when I hear things like the government saying women should not have mamograms until they are 50.  A lot of women have been diagnosed with breast cancer well before they were even 40.  I've got two daugters and it runs in my family, so forgive me for having a bad sense of foreboding with more government intervention in healthcare. Next they will say no colon or prostate screening for me until much later.

Sorry, I don't trust people for sale to the highest bidder to have my best health interests at heart, least of all some lawyer from Illinois.

"Teabagger"  Eeeewww will you libs knock that off?  The images...yuck!

BTW- I do respect your stance on the issue because of your experience, but I am entitled to my own differing opinion without someone resorting to name-calling.  My experience with the system good and bad would take a very long dissertation none of you would have the patience to read.

[USRufnex]

My family is every bit as important to me as yours.
And I need them to get colonscopys.
The doc said so.

The first thing I had to do at the front desk at my colonoscopy was to cough up $500.
Before I had surgery, I got a call from St Francis Imaging hitting me up for $500 despite the fact that I had already hit my deductible-- didn't matter to them, though..... I got my $500 back a couple months later.

If we ANALYZED and SCRUTINIZED the private insurance system and its standard business practices with the same zeal that the republicans use against healthcare reform and "government-run healthcare," we would have scrapped our employer-based system years ago.

Oh..... and that lot in Oakhurst rwarn wants to sell you?.... no meth there.... that'd be my apt building that's next door to the meth fire.  
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11377336

[Conan71]

My family is every bit as important to me as yours.
And I need them to get colonscopys.
The doc said so.

The first thing I had to do at the front desk at my colonoscopy was to cough up $500.
Before I had surgery, I got a call from St Francis Imaging hitting me up for $500 despite the fact that I had already hit my deductible-- didn't matter to them, though..... I got my $500 back a couple months later.

If we ANALYZED and SCRUTINIZED the private insurance system and its standard business practices with the same zeal that the republicans use against healthcare reform and "government-run healthcare," we would have scrapped our employer-based system years ago.

Oh..... and that lot in Oakhurst rwarn wants to sell you?.... no meth there.... that'd be my apt building that's next door to the meth fire.  
http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11377336

What??? I thought Oakhurst was in Crank County