Looks like the OHP takes it on the chin yet again.

[Hoss]

Probably right in there somewhere. 

Glad to see you hold the LEOs so accountable.   

[TeeDub]

They aren't accountable.    You and I are accountable for their mistakes when we have to pay out millions in settlements. 

That is what happens when you task them with apprehending criminals, you have to accept the consequences...   (Or change the policies.)

[Hoss]

They aren't accountable.    You and I are accountable for their mistakes when we have to pay out millions in settlements. 

That is what happens when you task them with apprehending criminals, you have to accept the consequences...   (Or change the policies.)

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.

[TeeDub]

No?  How do you see it?   

[heironymouspasparagus]

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.

Two a quarter unjustifiably killed is ok with TeeDub... just wonder how he would feel if those two were his closest family?   Father, mother, brothers, sister, etc.  After all, it's "only" two per quarter...!!

[TeeDub]

Two a quarter unjustifiably killed is ok with TeeDub... just wonder how he would feel if those two were his closest family?   Father, mother, brothers, sister, etc.  After all, it's "only" two per quarter...!!

Two per quarter?   I thought it was two innocent people in 14 months?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Two per quarter?   I thought it was two innocent people in 14 months?

Ooops...sorry!  I mis-remembered the number when I typed!


Still not good. 

[TeeDub]

Ooops...sorry!  I mis-remembered the number when I typed!

Still not good. 

Obviously zero would be better, but you can't just let criminals go if they should happen to run.   (Or can you?)   

We really don't have any basis to judge without knowing things like how many pursuits were there during that time frame, how many were called off due to dangerous conditions, etc....     This was a flame-bait article that was just meant to start trolls without any real facts or points for discussion.

[patric]

We really don't have any basis to judge without knowing things like how many pursuits were there during that time frame, how many were called off due to dangerous conditions, etc....     This was a flame-bait article that was just meant to start trolls without any real facts or points for discussion.

The reason we dont have better data on pursuits is DPS hides it behind their obtuse interpretation of the Open Records Act, where if something isnt specifically listed in the Act than they dont have to release it.

"Seven Oklahoma Highway Patrol chases resulted in eight deaths. All were within policy that OHP keeps secret" is a topic worthy of discussion if you believe in accountability.  DPS says they gain a tactical advantage by keeping secret policies that other departments dont hide.  No facts support that.

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.

The spinning in the opposite direction from excusing Trump when he says he doesnt counteracts the torque.

[TeeDub]

The reason we dont have better data on pursuits is DPS hides it behind their obtuse interpretation of the Open Records Act, where if something isnt specifically listed in the Act than they dont have to release it.

"Seven Oklahoma Highway Patrol chases resulted in eight deaths. All were within policy that OHP keeps secret" is a topic worthy of discussion if you believe in accountability.  DPS says they gain a tactical advantage by keeping secret policies that other departments dont hide.  No facts support that.

The spinning in the opposite direction from excusing Trump when he says he doesnt counteracts the torque.

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?   Again, I have no idea, just asking.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?   Again, I have no idea, just asking.

And how pathetic an excuse for them to use would that be?   Organization that has been around for about 80 years, so would desperately hope they have some type of "training manual" that would address that and dozens of other points.   Now you have me curious, too.

[TeeDub]

And how pathetic an excuse for them to use would that be?   Organization that has been around for about 80 years, so would desperately hope they have some type of "training manual" that would address that and dozens of other points.   Now you have me curious, too.

Training manual is not a "pursuit policy."   I am not a lawyer, but could having an official written policy could open them up to lawsuits, whereas a handbook of guidelines and formalized training would leave things open to individual discretion?   

Sometimes having written policies remove flexibility that is needed.

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Training manual is not a "pursuit policy."   I am not a lawyer, but could having an official written policy could open them up to lawsuits, whereas a handbook of guidelines and formalized training would leave things open to individual discretion?  

Sometimes having written policies remove flexibility that is needed.

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746  

True.  Either way, though you are gonna be liable.  I have run into the question of written employees handbook before.  Some of the companies I have worked for tried to cover every little detail, some didn't.  I have taken the approach of a very minimalist unwritten 'handbook'.  Since we are very small, the lawyer says it should be good.  Let the payroll service handle the minutia that I don't wanna bother with and just let everyone know that if they piss me off, they're gone!   Lol...not really...we talk about it more.  Sometimes even talk about it more in our outdoor voices...  But then none of us are ever gonna shoot someone in a high speed chase.  I hope...

[heironymouspasparagus]

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746 

Utopian Dreamscape.  Would that it were possible, but that genie was let out of the bottle probably 4,000 +  years ago with Hammurabi and his predecessors.

[patric]

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?  

Two troopers racing to be the lead pursuer killed another trooper, which does suggest a lack of formal discipline (if not discretion).