Billboard Blight - Seeking stats

[PonderInc]

I've been doing some research on billboards (aka Outdoor Advertising Signs), and I'm having a hard time finding anyone who maintains a list of exactly how many we have, where they're located and who operates them.

I'm specifically interested in "legal non-conforming" billboards that would be illegal under the current zoning code, but were grandfathered in years ago.  For instance, every time I drive downtown on the BA, I pass the two side-by-side billboards that are not in compliance with the spacing requirements.  (One shows the current value of the Powerball Lottery, and the other one is for a bank, with a Hasty Bake ad beneath.)

The TMAPC says that the BOA should know b/c they "verify" spacing between signs whenever a new one goes up.  The BOA said that they don't maintain a complete list (just the list of applications for verification), but suggested contacting the Sign Advisory Board folks...   (I'm trying to contact them, and waiting for a return phone call.  I think today's a furlough day, so I shouldn't complain.)

I did find the minutes to a 1984 TMAPC meeting in which it was stated that there were over 350 non-conforming billboards, and over 1,000 "unused, illegal, or non-conforming" signs in Tulsa.  I find it odd that someone had this data in 1984, and with all of today's computer and GPS technology, we don't have this info at our fingertips.

One interesting note from the 1984 TMAPC meeting: how many local sign companies used to exist in Tulsa.  At least back then our blight was supporting some local folks.  Today it's all going to Lamar Media Corporation...and a comparative handful to Whistler (which is local). 

Whistler has a couple engaging mottos that appear on its website (I am not making this up!)  "Intrusively reach up to 100,000 motorists every single day!"  and "Intrusively reach the masses!" 

Nice.

[Conan71]

What's your interest in the billboards?  If signs are permitted, which I'm assuming there is a permit process in Tulsa, there has to be a list at the city in some department.

At one point, Tulsa was dominated by Stokely and Donrey (Don Reynolds Media).  There were a few smaller companies here and there, but I'm guessing 90% of the signs belonged to Stokely or Donrey. in the early 1990's.

[Townsend]

If you can make any of them go away, I'd appreciate it.

[PonderInc]

Our zoning code sets arbitrary spacing requirements and setbacks, but noboby looks at the big picture.  If nobody knows how many there are, where they're located...how can you debate the merits of the current standards?  (Except to argue that you FEEL there are too many, or not enough?  Or you like them or you hate them...)

It seems like a good idea to start with actual facts.

Also, when billboard companies continuously ask for variances to allow them to place billboards in locations not allowed by the zoning code, it would be nice to say: "Look, we've already got 600 that don't meet the zoning requirements.  Let's not allow any more non-conforming signs until those are gone."

Or if a particular billboard company does not maintain their signs, wouldn't you want to know before granting them more permits?

Perhaps there's a correlation between density of billboards and traffic accidents.  How can you prove or disprove it without some basic info? 

Perhaps there are some safety/maintenance issues.  How do you inspect signs if you don't know where they are located, and when they were erected?

Perhaps there are some signs that were never permited?  How can you determine this without a list/map of legitimate signs?

[Conan71]

Ponder, I'm guessing you would have thought to check this already, but there should be a department at the city in charge of issuing sign permits.  I don't know if it would be the same department that does building permits, but I'd be shocked if they haven't compiled a database of signs.

Try permits department at 596-9601.

I did manage to find the sign permit application on line, but it does not have return instructions so I can't tell you which department it came from for sure.

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/COTLegacy/documents/SIGN.PDF

[PonderInc]

Another nitty-gritty question about billboards...

I noticed that our zoning code states:
No outdoor advertising sign shall contain more than two (2) sides and only one (1) side shall be included in the computation of display surface area. The two (2) sides shall face in opposite directions. "Opposite" shall, in addition to its ordinary meaning, include V-shaped signs when the angle of separation of the display surfaces does not exceed thirty degrees (30°).

Why, then, do we have several "triangular" billboards in town?  (One pole, three sides, three signs.)  Is this something that recently changed in our zoning ordinances?

[Hoss]

Another nitty-gritty question about billboards...

I noticed that our zoning code states:
No outdoor advertising sign shall contain more than two (2) sides and only one (1) side shall be included in the computation of display surface area. The two (2) sides shall face in opposite directions. "Opposite" shall, in addition to its ordinary meaning, include V-shaped signs when the angle of separation of the display surfaces does not exceed thirty degrees (30°).

Why, then, do we have several "triangular" billboards in town?  (One pole, three sides, three signs.)  Is this something that recently changed in our zoning ordinances?

Location?  I don't think I've ever seen a three-sided sign anywhere in town.

[buckeye]

Soon, we'll have heads-up displays on our windshield that recognize chroma-keyed billboards and project a google-researched targeted marketing message.

Personally, I'd rather there weren't any billboards anywhere.

[MDepr2007]

Location?  I don't think I've ever seen a three-sided sign anywhere in town.

There used to be one on the SE side of the BA and Memorial but we took it down in the late '90s. Another one was above the Funeral home on Harvard at the BA. Can't remember others at the moment.

[MDepr2007]

When I worked for Donrey in the '90s and we erected a new sign. We would go back a few weeks after the final inspection and extend it 2 to 4 feet more. Guess managment knew the city wouldn't come back and check the size again and Donrey could charge more for the bigger ad space.

[PonderInc]

Location?  I don't think I've ever seen a three-sided sign anywhere in town.

Just driving around for an hour the other day, I noticed one at Harvard & the BA (Next to Moore's Funeral Home), and one next to Border's on 21st.  (The third side looks like it was an afterthought...it was squeezed into the small side of the triangle. It faces the on-ramp traffic, and a residential neighborhood.)

[PonderInc]

When I worked for Donrey in the '90s and we erected a new sign. We would go back a few weeks after the final inspection and extend it 2 to 4 feet more. Guess managment knew the city wouldn't come back and check the size again and Donrey could charge more for the bigger ad space.

Nice.

[ARGUS]

Stay on 'em Ponder. For a lesson on what NOT to do visit Joplin Missouri!

[patric]

More U.S. communities banning 'television on a stick'
March 28, 2010 By Larry Copeland  http://www.physorg.com/news189008417.html

As the United States cracks down on texting while driving, more than a dozen cities around the nation have banned what some consider a growing external driving distraction: digital billboards.

Digital billboards change images every four to 10 seconds, flashing multiple messages from one or more advertisers on the same sign. Opponents such as John Regesnbogen of Scenic Missouri deride them as "television on a stick."

Several communities have banned digital billboards outright, the most recent being Denver earlier this month. Other places have put a moratorium on them pending a federal study on whether they distract drivers. At least one other city and two states are studying moratoriums.

"The digital billboards are a distraction," says Fred Wessels, an alderman in St. Louis, which just approved a one-year moratorium on such signs.

"If they weren't distracting, they wouldn't be doing their job," says Max Ashburn, spokesman for Scenic America, a national nonprofit group that seeks to limit billboards.

Research on the issue is mixed. A Virginia Tech Transportation Institute study in 2007, financed by the billboard industry, found that they aren't distracting. A review of studies completed last year for the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, however, concluded that they "attract drivers' eyes away from the road for extended, demonstrably unsafe periods of time."

Digital billboards are a fast-growing segment of the outdoor advertising market. Since a federal rule against them was eased in 2007, the number of digital billboards has more than doubled to about 1,800 of 450,000 total billboards. At least 39 states allow them. They cost an average $200,000 to $300,000 apiece, according to the industry group Outdoor Advertising Association of America.

In 2007, the Federal Highway Administration relaxed a rule against digital billboards, saying they don't violate the 1965 Highway Beautification Act's ban on "intermittent," "flashing" or "moving" lights. FHWA is researching the signs, using eye-trackers inside volunteers' vehicles to determine whether drivers look at the billboards and for how long. The study is to be completed this summer.

The Department of Transportation, which is leading a national push against texting while driving, says that 5,870 people were killed in distracted-driving crashes in 2008. The department has not determined how many of those deaths involved an electronic device, another distraction such as eating or tuning the radio, or something outside the vehicle such as a digital billboard.

[Gaspar]

You can call the sign companies (I think there are only 3 or 4 that offer billboards any more) and get a map and listing. 

I used to do this at least once a year, so I would know where to purchase ad space.  They'll send you a map and a list in Excel that shows sign locations and traffic count.  Just tell them that you are doing market research.  They are typically happy to help.

Each billboard typically has $1,500 to $5,000 in billable space per month (not sure about the LED signs).  Multiple signs make significantly more.  If you are pushing for limits, be aware that billboards generate a good deal of ongoing tax revenue for a city.