How much is too much?

[custosnox]

little by little we are giving up our rights for the illusions of security.  When is it too much?  Where do we draw the line? 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

NEWARK, Del. — Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother's fiancé by his side to vouch for him.

Zachary's offense? Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about recently joining the Cub Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary was suspended and now faces 45 days in the district's reform school.

"It just seems unfair," Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, "regardless of possessor's intent," knives are banned.

But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

"Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously," said Debbie Christie, Zachary's mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. "He is not some sort of threat to his classmates."

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

"There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife," said George Evans, the president of the Christina district's school board. He defended the decision, but added that the board might adjust the rules when it comes to younger children like Zachary.

Critics contend that zero-tolerance policies like those in the Christina district have led to sharp increases in suspensions and expulsions, often putting children on the streets or in other places where their behavior only worsens, and that the policies undermine the ability of school officials to use common sense in handling minor infractions.

For Delaware, Zachary's case is especially frustrating because last year state lawmakers tried to make disciplinary rules more flexible by giving local boards authority to, "on a case-by-case basis, modify the terms of the expulsion."

The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.

In Zachary's case, the state's new law did not help because it mentions only expulsion and does not explicitly address suspensions. A revised law is being drafted to include suspensions.

"We didn't want our son becoming the poster child for this," Ms. Christie said, "but this is out of control."

In a letter to the district's disciplinary committee, State Representative Teresa L. Schooley, Democrat of Newark, wrote, "I am asking each of you to consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child."

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

"The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased," said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Other school districts are also trying to address problems they say have stemmed in part from overly strict zero-tolerance policies.

In Baltimore, around 10,000 students, about 12 percent of the city's enrollment, were suspended during the 2006-7 school year, mostly for disruption and insubordination, according to a report by the Open Society Institute-Baltimore. School officials there are rewriting the disciplinary code, to route students to counseling rather than suspension.

In Milwaukee, where school officials reported that 40 percent of ninth graders had been suspended at least once in the 2006-7 school year, the superintendent has encouraged teachers not to overreact to student misconduct.

"Something has to change," said Dodi Herbert, whose 13-year old son, Kyle, was suspended in May and ordered to attend the Christina district's reform school for 45 days after another student dropped a pocket knife in his lap. School officials declined to comment on the case for reasons of privacy.

Ms. Herbert, who said her son was a straight-A student, has since been home-schooling him instead of sending him to the reform school.

The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project.

Charles P. Ewing, a professor of law and psychology at the University at Buffalo Law School who has written about school safety issues, said he favored a strict zero-tolerance approach.

"There are still serious threats every day in schools," Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.

In the 2005-6 school year, 86 percent of public schools reported at least one violent crime, theft or other crime, according to the most recent federal survey.

And yet, federal studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another by the Department of Justice show that the rate of school-related homicides and nonfatal violence has fallen over most of the past decade.

Educational experts say the decline is less a result of zero-tolerance policies than of other programs like peer mediation, student support groups and adult mentorships, as well as an overall decrease in all forms of crime.

For Zachary, it is not school violence that has left him reluctant to return to classes.

"I just think the other kids may tease me for being in trouble," he said, pausing before adding, "but I think the rules are what is wrong, not me."

[sauerkraut]

Common sense is out the window. When I was in 2nd grade some kids brought in their dads hunting rifle to school for "show & tell", they kept the rifle on the coat rack all day-  Today that could never be done. Today Kids get booted out of school for pointing a finger and saying "bang".

[brianh]

This kid had a knife. kids + knives + other kids are a bad combo.  That reform school thing is stupid, but a nice 5 day suspension should definitely be in play here.

[custosnox]

This kid had a knife. kids + knives + other kids are a bad combo.  That reform school thing is stupid, but a nice 5 day suspension should definitely be in play here.

It was a camping unitlity knife from cubscouts.  While not the best thing to bring to school, I really don't think it should have warranted a suspension at all.  Also what get's me is the mention in the article about that girl that was expelled because her grandmother sent a birthday cake with her to school and had included a knife to cut the cake.

[brianh]

It was a camping unitlity knife from cubscouts.  While not the best thing to bring to school, I really don't think it should have warranted a suspension at all.  Also what get's me is the mention in the article about that girl that was expelled because her grandmother sent a birthday cake with her to school and had included a knife to cut the cake.

Would the TSA let you bring a knife like that kid had on an airplane though?

[Wilbur]

How many knives in the kitchen of the school are handed out to kids each day during lunch?

Any cafeteria workers been suspended?  How about the board members for authorizing the purchase of the knives?

And, another one today.  An Eagle scout gets suspended for having a 2 inch pocket knife in his survival pack in his car in the parking lot. 

Someone, please have some common sense!

[godboko71]

And, another one today.  An Eagle scout gets suspended for having a 2 inch pocket knife in his survival pack in his car in the parking lot. 

Been there on that one, my solution to that though was parking off school property after that suspension, random "safely" checks equal a big lot of waste. Want to know the real sad part, the knife was part of a multi-tool that I was required to have to do the computer work for said school system. *rolls eyes*  Like an Eagle Scout is going to knife someone at school. *rolls eyes again*

Enough ranting, my only real comment is, some people are proof certain rules do not work and not everything is created equal when it comes to said rules.

[custosnox]

and for those that don't know about the eagle scout

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,565520,00.html

Would the TSA let you bring a knife like that kid had on an airplane though?

It's related and is a part of the point.  However, keep in mind that I said it wasn't the best thing to take to school.  Also, the TSA would have, at most, confinscated it.

[TeeDub]

Really?  I think I can beat all those.

How about a 13 year old that gets suspended for three days for drawing a PICTURE of a gun.
http://www.kpho.com/news/13943838/detail.html

Or better yet a 2nd grader...   (What is that, a 7 year old?!?!)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303796,00.html

[Conan71]

My opinion?  These "zero tolerance" codes throw out any semblance of common sense.  I'm with Wilbur, forks and butter knives can hurt someone if intentionally used in the wrong way.  So can a sharp pencil or pen.  Putting a six year old who doesn't know any better in reform school for 45 days?  Fire the administrators, that's simply retarded.

Brianh, five day suspension? Why?  What did this kid intentionally do to deserve a lesson in Draconian idiotic rules?

[DolfanBob]

My Son was being harassed by another child a couple of years ago in a Broken Arrow Elementary school.
He was pushed to the point of yelling at the boy to stop or 'I'll kill you'
Two other children heard it and was questioned. I was contacted and my Son got three days detention instead of suspension because I met with the assistant Principle and two counselors and let them know that my Son was already in counseling because of my divorce, and he and his brother coming to live with me permenantly.
The other child was talked to but no other disciplinary action was taken.
My Son also was put on a alert list which will travel with him within the School district. They assured me that this was standard procedure with this type of behavior.
Ok my first reaction was that they do not even understand how passive my Son is, because back in the day his Father didnt give any warning and they would have been breaking up a fight.
I have taught both my boys to not start the fight or throw the first punch. But after they are touched in any aggressive way to finish it.
So this is what we have come to in our education system.

[brianh]

OK, so we change the policy to  everyone who brings a knife to school and gets caught simply gets it taken away.  You are OK with that applying to everyone, including known gang members? What if a hardened gang member takes this same swiss army style knife to school, gets busted and says that he took it there to eat lunch; it now has a precedent, so there can be no punishment. You guys are just fine with that right?

[RecycleMichael]

We used to have to bring a metal compass to school with a point on it that could kill a horse, yet were forced to only have safety scissors.

[Townsend]

We used to have to bring a metal compass to school with a point on it that could kill a horse, yet were forced to only have safety scissors.

My compass was taken away due to the carvings on my desk.  I was allowed to keep the safety scissors.

We had Swiss army knives and those little paper wrapped things you through on the ground and they'd explode.  Never got in trouble for that stuff.  That was in the 70's in the tri-state area.

We also played "kill the (place derogatory term here) with the ball".

Dodge ball was acceptable and not looked at as a violent problem.  (head hunting was deemed inappropriate by us kids and was not allowed)

Oh, we kept score on everything.  Are those idiots still pushing to remove scoring from elementary sports?

I also don't remember any teachers or adults on the playground either.  I'm guessing they were in the teacher's lounge for a smoke break and a little snort.

I'd imagine the rules will continue to become more and more strict.

I could understand the kid being thrown out if he had a history of violence.  If no history, give him/her another shot.

[Conan71]

OK, so we change the policy to  everyone who brings a knife to school and gets caught simply gets it taken away.  You are OK with that applying to everyone, including known gang members? What if a hardened gang member takes this same swiss army style knife to school, gets busted and says that he took it there to eat lunch; it now has a precedent, so there can be no punishment. You guys are just fine with that right?

Your arguments are non sequiturs.  Where on earth did you get the idea I'd be okay with gang members getting away with something like that?  Try again with more relevant examples that follow exactly what I said.  Where does it make sense to come down so hard on a six year old?