Police Layoffs

[shadows]

This will all pale in comparison to the rumors.....layoffs will turn into resignations.

Before any of the officers resign it would possibility be to their advantage to see where they can find another job that has both compatible salaries and perks that they are accustom too.  The propaganda department seem to elaborate grossly on Tulsa coming out of the recession.  Many times static's are not reliable. 

[rwarn17588]

who says they dont?  Like I mentioned before, I plan on putting in my app for the academy.  I live just outside the city limits of Tulsa but still in Tulsa County.  I pay Tulsa County tax (almost 3,000 dollars a year) and I supoort local businesses in Tulsa.  Just because they live outside the city limits, doesnt mean they dont support the community.  That is a very naive thing to say.  And like MH2010 said, the drive from my house (outside city limits) to Riverside station is shorter then someone that lives at 111th and Sheridan (inside the city limits) and drives to Gilcrease.  The logic that "if you live in the city limits, you are closer to work" is flawed.

I don't think the issue is whether folks who live outside city limits support the area. The issue is simple economics. It costs the city more money to let cops drive their patrol cars home -- period. That is indisputable.

And when you have cities all across the country that are cash-strapped, it seems stupid and intractable to let the police union keep a minor perk at the expense of jobs and public safety. At this point, the police union is nothing more than utterly self-serving.

[TUalum0982]

I don't think the issue is whether folks who live outside city limits support the area. The issue is simple economics. It costs the city more money to let cops drive their patrol cars home -- period. That is indisputable.

And when you have cities all across the country that are cash-strapped, it seems stupid and intractable to let the police union keep a minor perk at the expense of jobs and public safety. At this point, the police union is nothing more than utterly self-serving.

I agree with you 100%.  Either take it away from EVERYONE that is elgible to drive a car home or let everyone that is elgible keep the perk.  I don't think its fair to say "anyone that lives in the city is OK, and everyone else isn't" because of the variables I mentioned earlier. It doesnt make sense from a financial standpoint if you do decide and do it that way IMO

As for who to blame, I have heard varying accounts from both sides obviously blaming someone else.  If the city did in fact agree to this "benefit" of taking cars home over a pay raise then I can see why the FOP and officers would be upset. 

I dont think the police dept should be immune from cutbacks, but the mayors office should have asked Chief Palmer and TPD where they think they can cut back.  Give them an amount they need to come up with and let them work on it, dont just start laying off officers and grounding helicopters.  Like I mentioned before, I think the mayors office did this totally the wrong way and should have offered up some alternatives to both the citizens of our city and the police dept.

From how I understand it, the mayors great idea of all city employees taking furlough days, didnt help the city budget, only made it worse(speaking in terms of police officers only).  If these are the decisions they are making, maybe they should let the people who actually run the police dept make decisions on where they can/should cut back not the other way around.

Better yet, maybe the mayor and her husband could sell one their planes and/or Bentley they keep at US Aviation at TIA and give the city a nice contribution.  That would definitely offset some of our budget woes!!

[MH2010]

The latest thing on Friday, is a deal has been reached. I'm not sure what it is but before the deal with the Lafortune administration, the policy was that the only people that drove their vehicles outside the city were S.O.T (SWAT) members (that is about 30 officers), bomb squad members (7), meth lab response units (eight) and on-call detectives (i have no idea how many).  I think (my own personal opinion) if the city can show how they came up with the 1.1 million dollar number and put on paper that no more officers will be laid off unless revenue falls below X amount, this is what will happen.

I think the city wants the police vehicles at homes inside the city and that will not change.  

The only interesting thing is what they will do with the federal money.  It has already been changed so they can use it to keep 18 of the officers.  So, will they save the 1.1 million and hire back the officers with the city's money or will they keep the officers on the federal money and use the 1.1 million somewhere else?  

Putting the helicopter and the horses back in service is a given.  

[patric]

the mayors office should have asked Chief Palmer and TPD where they think they can cut back.  Give them an amount they need to come up with and let them work on it, dont just start laying off officers and grounding helicopters.

Do you really think that's how it was done?

My understanding of why we are where we are is that the FOP doesnt think it has to budge, and childishly sit on contracts and perks that were negotiated under better financial times.

We forget it's not the union's job to do what's best for the city, but to do what's best for the union.

It almost reminds me of the Wall Street executives who expect an uninterrupted flow of bonuses while people are living in cardboard boxes.

The FOP should face reality and negotiate realistically, but instead they just crank out pity propaganda about how the horses might end up as taco meat or babies will be born naked because we dont have helicopters.   

[shadows]

Where are you going to park all those cars? None of the three uniform divisions currently have enough parking. So, lets spend how much building more parking lots.
---------------------------------------------
That is a very stupid question as any bank or business would love to furnish a parking space for one of those 12 foot sign boards painted with "POLICE".  Talk about a deterrent to anyone getting ready to holdup the business they would not know if a cop was inside or arrive for the car at any moment or sitting in his private car ready to change cars.

[TUalum0982]

Do you really think that's how it was done?

My understanding of why we are where we are is that the FOP doesnt think it has to budge, and childishly sit on contracts and perks that were negotiated under better financial times.

We forget it's not the union's job to do what's best for the city, but to do what's best for the union.

In doing so, they are acting just like the Wall Street executives who expect an uninterrupted flow of bonuses while people are living in cardboard boxes.

The FOP should face reality and negotiate realistically, but instead they just crank out pity propaganda about how the horses might end up as taco meat or babies will be born naked because we dont have helicopters.   

How is losing membership (21 officers being laid off and no academy for awhile) beneficial to the union? It isn't.  You are losing dues, voting power, etc.

IMHO (from the articles and stories I have read) that the mayors office acted hastily and decided "oh this is the easiest and simplest thing to do, so lets do that".  KOTV's website has had plenty of coverage ranging from what would/will happen the horses, helicopter unit, and also posting press releases from both the city and TPD showing numbers,etc. I wouldnt call that propaganda from the FOP.  Once again, from all the accounts I have read I dont think the city bothered to inform the FOP/TPD about the drastic shortfall in the budget until it was too late.  The mayors office basically said "you have x amount of time to decide this, take it or leave it" mentality.  That is no way to solve a problem.

Like I stated before, I don't think they believe that they are immune from any budget cuts but what was proposed, how it was proposed and how quickly it was proposed I am sure caught many in TPD and FOP off guard.  In their defense, the city of Tulsa has a brand new shiny city hall where all depts are together and all is well, yet we are laying off police officers?  It makes no sense. Maybe these highly paid public officials could contribute as well.  Does the public works director need to make 178K? Does the director of Emergency Managment services need to make 214K?  Do we need to leave the lights on in the ice cube all night long?  Did we need to fly a helicopter from old drillers stadium to ONEOK field to deliver home plate?  I appreciate the mayor forfeiting her salary and all, but from the outside looking in, it doesnt look like the city as a whole did too much to contribue to shed 6 million dollars from the budget.

And like I proposed earlier, why not have some sort city wide campaign to raise money to try and save some of these jobs and cutbacks?  If its as important to the city as a whole when compared to the comments on the board, I would imagine there would be plenty of donations from concerned citizens of Tulsa, as well as local business and foundations.  I am by no means rich by any stretch of the imagination and took a pay cut at work, but I would be willing to donate what I could to help save some jobs from being lost at the police dept.


As for Shadows comment, You can't leave a police car parked overnight at a random parking lot of some business.  People will catch on, and I can gaurantee you, they will break the windows, steal equipment from the trunk, computers, ammo, guns, etc.  Then you would have people bitching "we can't afford to be replacing all these windows, equipment, etc. whose decision was it to randomly park all these squad cars at random businesses around town."

There are plenty of fire stations, city lots, and police stations for officers to park their squad cars within a few miles of their house but I dont think it should be at a bank or random business because its almost certain the cars will be vandalized.

[shadows]

I know of a business on the near north side of town that was pledged with break-ins until they bought a surplus police car and put it in their building.  When they closed each day they parked the car in front.  Break-ins stopped.  Every driver when they see a police car or OHP parked they automatically check their speed.  I don't hear of the police cars parked in the suburbs being vandalized but have been assured on this form that Tulsa police cars deter crime in these areas.  Two-thirds of the drive home cars can be parked on streets or in drives in the daylight. 
If a police car cannot be parked on a parking lot least it is vandalized then Tulsa does have a problem more than a 6M shortage.     

[rwarn17588]

I know of a business on the near north side of town that was pledged with break-ins until they bought a surplus police car and put it in their building.  When they closed each day they parked the car in front.  Break-ins stopped.  Every driver when they see a police car or OHP parked they automatically check their speed.  I don't hear of the police cars parked in the suburbs being vandalized but have been assured on this form that Tulsa police cars deter crime in these areas.  Two-thirds of the drive home cars can be parked on streets or in drives in the daylight. 
If a police car cannot be parked on a parking lot least it is vandalized then Tulsa does have a problem more than a 6M shortage.     

Fine. Parking police cars at homes deters crime. Let's make sure it deters crime in Tulsa, and not in suburbs on our dime.

[TUalum0982]

I know of a business on the near north side of town that was pledged with break-ins until they bought a surplus police car and put it in their building.  When they closed each day they parked the car in front.  Break-ins stopped.  Every driver when they see a police car or OHP parked they automatically check their speed.  I don't hear of the police cars parked in the suburbs being vandalized but have been assured on this form that Tulsa police cars deter crime in these areas.  Two-thirds of the drive home cars can be parked on streets or in drives in the daylight. 
If a police car cannot be parked on a parking lot least it is vandalized then Tulsa does have a problem more than a 6M shortage.     

A police car that is parked in the driveway of their residence is totally different then parking a squad car and left unanttended day or night at some random business.  You don't think crooks will catch on to a police officer locking their car up and driving off in another car around the same time on certain days? I have several OHP and TPD officers that live in my neighborhood, most of them park their squad car in the garage.  If I were a police officer I would not want to leave my squad car in a parking lot of some business only to come to work the next day and its windows are busted out, its burned out, and my equipment is stolen. 

[patric]

I don't hear of the police cars parked in the suburbs being vandalized but have been assured on this form that Tulsa police cars deter crime in these areas.

For some reason, break-ins involving police cars arent reported like other crimes -- you have to hear it on a scanner or some other source, but it eventually gets documented:

Tulsa police car recovered after being stolen
By KELLY HINES World Staff Writer

Tulsa Police have recovered a patrol car after it was stolen from outside an officer's home Tuesday morning.

The vehicle, a 2003 Ford Crown Victoria, had been taken from the 7400 block of South 87th East Avenue, according to police scanner traffic.

The patrol car was recovered about 8:45 a.m. after a manager from Quail Creek Villa Apartments, 7334 S. Memorial Drive, called police. The car had been abandoned in a fire line at the apartment complex, Officer Leland Ashley said.

The car was stolen sometime after 7:10 a.m., when the officer's wife last saw it in their driveway. A shotgun that was inside has not been recovered, but the officer's computer was not taken.

Police have no suspect description, Ashley said. It appeared the thief shattered the window on the driver's side to break into the car.


Scratch the argument about parked police cars making neighborhoods safer.

[FOTD]

Before any of the officers resign it would possibility be to their advantage to see where they can find another job that has both compatible salaries and perks that they are accustom too.  The propaganda department seem to elaborate grossly on Tulsa coming out of the recession.  Many times static's are not reliable. 

Rumor is many will not have that chance .... handcuffs make filling out a resume difficult...

[MH2010]

For some reason, break-ins involving police cars arent reported like other crimes -- you have to hear it on a scanner or some other source, but it eventually gets documented:

Tulsa police car recovered after being stolen
By KELLY HINES World Staff Writer

Tulsa Police have recovered a patrol car after it was stolen from outside an officer's home Tuesday morning.

The vehicle, a 2003 Ford Crown Victoria, had been taken from the 7400 block of South 87th East Avenue, according to police scanner traffic.

The patrol car was recovered about 8:45 a.m. after a manager from Quail Creek Villa Apartments, 7334 S. Memorial Drive, called police. The car had been abandoned in a fire line at the apartment complex, Officer Leland Ashley said.

The car was stolen sometime after 7:10 a.m., when the officer's wife last saw it in their driveway. A shotgun that was inside has not been recovered, but the officer's computer was not taken.

Police have no suspect description, Ashley said. It appeared the thief shattered the window on the driver's side to break into the car.


Scratch the argument about parked police cars making neighborhoods safer.

Yeah, that is why multiple cities with police departments let their officers take home police cars. Because they are totally ineffective in making neighborhoods safer.  They just do it because they love to spend money.

[shadows]

Three officers with one print man thinking I suppose how to make a report.
Took shot gun at a time most people were going to work.  Will there be an investigation or after the report will the case be closed like it was a citizens break-in.  There sure could be a lot of questions that will go unanswered.   

[TulsaSooner]

OK ... you've been teasing about this so-called rumor for weeks. Put up or shut up.

Props to FOTD

Several TPD offers and a federal agent under investigation.  Should make the layoffs fewer since some should be getting fired.   

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=14&articleid=20091031_297_0_Severa480380