North Tulsa to Get Grocery Store

[patric]

Nonetheless, I find it ludicrous that some northside leaders think having Black ownership will make any difference if they don't do any better than Perez did.

I thought this sound bite rather odd:
"You can make money in this community with a store. Mr. Perez tried it and he tried it his way," said Jack Henderson, a Tulsa city councilor.

[Townsend]

I thought this sound bite rather odd:
"You can make money in this community with a store. Mr. Perez tried it and he tried it his way," said Jack Henderson, a Tulsa city councilor.

So Henderson is accusing Perez of Burger King-ing it.

Is Henderson throwing his hat in the grocer's ring?

[AquaMan]

Interesting because Perez seems to do well at Admiral and Lewis and I never noticed bare shelves there.

Hard to compare the two. Los mercados isn't it? Much smaller and targeted to Hispanics.

[DTowner]

Interesting because Perez seems to do well at Admiral and Lewis and I never noticed bare shelves there.

I never shopped here, so I can't dispute the negative experiences of those who did.  However, I frequently shop at Las Americas at Admiral and Lewis and it is well-stocked (with lots of "American" name brands") and seems competitatively priced.

If a national chain and a local chain failed in this location, odds don't seem good for one-store operation to make it no matter the race of the owners.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

IIRC when Albertsons closed this store it was part of their withdrawal from Oklahoma and the restructuring they wede going thru. It just seems odd to me that the current owner can make it in another location but not here. There are plenty of regional and smaller owned stores that have survived longer in areas worse (perception, not recent knowledge) than this location without suffering the losses that happened at this store.

[Conan71]

Warehouse Market seems good at understanding their clientele and they have thrived in low income areas including a location in Turley so it's not like north Tulsa is an anathema to them.  I've even noticed at their 3rd & Lewis location they have more offerings which appeal to the Hispanics living in the immediate area.

I'm curious why they were not approached about taking over the Pine & Peoria location. Perhaps they will now, it seems like a good fit for them.

[DTowner]

I wonder if part of the problem with this location is that it was built on the scale/design of Albertson's more suburban stores.  While Albertson's pulled out of Oklahoma, nearly all of its other stores were grabbed up by other grocery store chains except for this one.  Perhaps it is too big and too expensive to operate in the geographic/social-economic area in which it serves.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Warehouse Market seems good at understanding their clientele and they have thrived in low income areas including a location in Turley so it's not like north Tulsa is an anathema to them.  I've even noticed at their 3rd & Lewis location they have more offerings which appeal to the Hispanics living in the immediate area.

I'm curious why they were not approached about taking over the Pine & Peoria location. Perhaps they will now, it seems like a good fit for them.

That's what I think the issue is. In Phoenix the WM equivalent is Food City which I think is owned by the local parent company Basha's and they do quite well in low income areas and don't seem to have the losses experienced here. They offer good products and prices. This place kind of reminds me of the Price Mart I think it was that was in the old Belscott location on Admiral & 73rd E Ave. Had lots of product but always seemed to be just before expiration date and ground beef that was gray under the surface.

[dbacksfan 2.0]

I wonder if part of the problem with this location is that it was built on the scale/design of Albertson's more suburban stores.  While Albertson's pulled out of Oklahoma, nearly all of its other stores were grabbed up by other grocery store chains except for this one.  Perhaps it is too big and too expensive to operate in the geographic/social-economic area in which it serves.

Very valid point. If it was smaller it.might have been successful.

[Gaspar]

Very valid point. If it was smaller it.might have been successful.

Perhaps a percentage of that community works elsewhere, and much like me, finds the convenience of stopping at the store close to work an easier option.  Granted I only work about 3 miles from my home, but I'm willing to bet many of the resident's of North Tulsa have a far longer commute than I do.

When I studied marketing demographics in college, one of the important patterns was represented by access to grocery and general merchandise close to office and other labor centers.  Grocery stores close to office buildings see a big boom at 5pm as people are attracted by the ability to stop for groceries and avoid traffic. 

My wife is a stay-at-home mom, but she works one day a week at the university on 41st and Yale.  She stops at Reasor's up there every time before coming home, because it's more convenient than picking up the kids and carting them to one of the zillion grocery stores near our house.

I bet many of the working folks in North Tulsa shop near their place of employment on a more regular basis than they would if there was a grocery store around the block from their home.

[Conan71]

I bet many of the working folks in North Tulsa shop near their place of employment on a more regular basis than they would if there was a grocery store around the block from their home.

Or as posted earlier about their proclivity for fast food, at the McDonalds just to the south.

[Gaspar]

Or as posted earlier about their proclivity for fast food, at the McDonalds just to the south.

That is quite the spot. My partner in BBQ lives right there.  That is probably the busiest McDonald's in Tulsa.  It also has a much larger parking lot than most McD's.  It's obvious that they knew their demographic when they built it.  Of course you can use your EBT at McDonalds as easy as you can at the grocery store, so the choice is easy.  Sonic followed suit, building one of the largest Sonic units just up the street.  You can use your EBT card at every stall and there is typically no need for the food runners to carry much cash.

It's quite sad, because fast food is a far more expensive option than home cooking, and you can bet that the massive amounts of money that McD's and other QSR chains pull in is extracted from that community forever.  Of course, when you give people money for food, they are far more prone to spend it frivolously and without regard to their own health.  Why you can use an EBT for anything other than groceries, I will never understand.

Imagine, how many grocery stores would be in that area if EBT purchases were limited to healthy grocery store options?  When you become a ward of the state, by choice or by chance, the support the state gives you should be restricted to only those things that will help you to survive in a healthy manner, and encourage you to attain luxury, vice, and other (lesser) activities through your own individual and productive means. If you want the deep fried cheesecake balls at Sonic, you should come up with your own money for that poison.  Sucks that I have to pay for them, and then pay again to treat your diabetes.

[rdj]

I wonder if part of the problem with this location is that it was built on the scale/design of Albertson's more suburban stores.  While Albertson's pulled out of Oklahoma, nearly all of its other stores were grabbed up by other grocery store chains except for this one.  Perhaps it is too big and too expensive to operate in the geographic/social-economic area in which it serves.

As a resident of the area I would say this was a big driver behind the issue.  They attempted to fill the entire space initially and it just didn't work.  About 18 months ago they partitioned the store in about half and tried it at that size.  Still just didn't work.  Shelves weren't really stocked with lots of open space.  It is a shoplifter's dream the way it is laid out.

The building needs a major facelift on the interior and exterior.  It isn't inviting.  It is way too big.  In my humble opinion the area needs several smaller grocers that also offer pre-packaged meals.  If you visit the Family Dollar at Pine and MLK or the Braum's at Gilcrease & 412 you will find a line at all times with customers buying grocery products.  As much as we'd all like to eat fresh food, the economic demographics of the area make that tough.

[Townsend]

That is quite the spot. My partner in BBQ lives right there.  That is probably the busiest McDonald's in Tulsa.  It also has a much larger parking lot than most McD's.  It's obvious that they knew their demographic when they built it.  Of course you can use your EBT at McDonalds as easy as you can at the grocery store, so the choice is easy.  Sonic followed suit, building one of the largest Sonic units just up the street.  You can use your EBT card at every stall and there is typically no need for the food runners to carry much cash.

It's quite sad, because fast food is a far more expensive option than home cooking, and you can bet that the massive amounts of money that McD's and other QSR chains pull in is extracted from that community forever.  Of course, when you give people money for food, they are far more prone to spend it frivolously and without regard to their own health.  Why you can use an EBT for anything other than groceries, I will never understand.

Imagine, how many grocery stores would be in that area if EBT purchases were limited to healthy grocery store options?  When you become a ward of the state, by choice or by chance, the support the state gives you should be restricted to only those things that will help you to survive in a healthy manner, and encourage you to attain luxury, vice, and other (lesser) activities through your own individual and productive means. If you want the deep fried cheesecake balls at Sonic, you should come up with your own money for that poison.  Sucks that I have to pay for them, and then pay again to treat your diabetes.

It's crazy, EBT is not supposed to be able to buy "hot food". 

However, USDA site says; 

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

Since the current definition of food is a specific part of the Act, any change to this definition would require action by a member of Congress. Several times in the history of SNAP, Congress had considered placing limits on the types of food that could be purchased with program benefits. However, they concluded that designating foods as luxury or non-nutritious would be administratively costly and burdensome.

At least tell Sonic/McD's/etc.  "you can't take these cards".

[Conan71]

And also not allow their use at convenience stores.  I was shocked a few years back when I found out Red Bull was EBT eligible.