Vision 2025...Part 2?

[sgrizzle]

I think there is a future need for park and ride along Riverside, but the "parking" facility should be at the Creek Turnpike or Jenks and not at I44. If a train is involved then it needs to be on the west side of the river and not built or maintained by Tulsa tax payers.

The problems with the location Dewey stated:

- Riverside is not a transit corridor
- A transit corridor is being installed a half mile -> East
- People don't "park and ride" 6 miles generally
- What is he tearing down to install this?

[Townsend]

KWGS is posting a "Smell the fart" picture of the Mayor.



I'm assuming this is while he was coming up with ways to use our money in the V2 debacle.

[swake]

The Tulsa World just posted the county plan for its $92 million share:

Juvenile justice center: $38 million
Roads and other infrastructure: $25 million
Improving Expo Square: $12 million
Levee improvements: $10 million
Parks and recreational facilities: $7 million

[swake]

Full List:


Proposition 1:
Economic development
$20-25 million for upgrades to the IC Bus facility.
$12-16 million for Spirit.
$200 million to $210 million for American
Closing fund - $52.942 million
Bond costs and interest - $79.938 million


Proposition 2:
Quality-of-life improvements
Tulsa County - Juvenile justice center: $38 million
Tulsa County - Roads and other infrastructure: $25 million
Tulsa County - Improving Expo Square: $12 million
Tulsa County - Levee improvements: $10 million
Tulsa County - Parks and recreational facilities: $7 million
City of Tulsa - Arkansas River, $55 million: Rebuilding the Dam for Zink, White Water rafting facility and if the state funding comes through, the 106th St Dam
City of Tulsa - Tulsa Zoo, $20 million
City of Tulsa - Parks, $15 million: Large regional recreation center at Lacy Park with additional funding for The Turkey Mountain urban wilderness area
City of Tulsa - Gilcrease Expressway extension, $10 million
City of Tulsa - Riverside Drive park-and-ride infrastructure, $10 million: A new parking garage at Riverside Drive and Interstate 44
City of Tulsa - Downtown, $10 million: No defined use at all
City of Tulsa - Neighborhoods, $10 million: No defined use yet
City of Tulsa - Brownfield cleanups, $5 million: Morton Health Center, 636 E. Pine St.; the Evans-Fintube site in the 100 block of North Lansing Avenue; a former gas station at 3519 N. Hartford Ave.; Apache Circle in the 500 block of East Apache Street; a shopping center in the 2100 block of North Cincinnati Avenue; and another former gas station at 1047 E. Apache St.
City of Tulsa - Oklahoma State University-Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - University of Oklahoma-University of Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - Trails, $5 million: Nothing specific
City of Tulsa - OSU Medical Center, $2.5 million
Bixby - $11.3 million - Undefined
Broken Arrow - $44.1 million - Undefined
Collinsville - $3 million - Undefined
Glenpool - $5.9 million - Undefined
Jenks - $9.2 million – Undefined (but probably the river)
Owasso - $14.38 million - Undefined
Sand Springs - $10.1 million - Undefined
Skiatook - $1.16 million - Undefined
Sperry - $643,894 – Undefined

No bonding cost for prop2, so it’s pay as you go which means none of these can even begin to happen until the tax starts which is still years away and some of these would not even start until after 2029. It will be 20 years until this vague list is done, 20 years!

[DTowner]

I support the airport building improvements, but not the purchase of equipment for private companies.  Sounds like we've done that for AA in the past, but it's time to stop it.  I also support the deal closing fund.  Since the equipment is in Prop 1, I am a "no."

I am a "no" on Prop 2 because it is too soon to be voting on this, it is unecessarily rushed, it locks up a primary source of funding for future projects until 2029, the distribution ratio is dumb (maybe it shouldn't even be a county tax), many of the projects on Bartlette's list lack specifics or are of questionable value, and too many short-term growth promoting projects are ignored.  Vision 2 should build on the momentum created by Vision 2025.  This is just a grab bag of goodies for various interests with little connection to what we've done or to capitalize on past success.

I hope this vote goes down so we can step back and break it up into smaller shorter term chunks that have been fully vetted by the electorate.

[nathanm]

I support the airport building improvements, but not the purchase of equipment for private companies.  Sounds like we've done that for AA in the past, but it's time to stop it.  I also support the deal closing fund.  Since the equipment is in Prop 1, I am a "no."

It's not purchasing equipment "for" someone else in the sense that they take ownership, or at least that's how it's worked in the past. If AA leaves, the equipment stays, unless we sell it to someone else.

[RecycleMichael]

City of Tulsa - Arkansas River, $55 million: Rebuilding the Dam for Zink, White Water rafting facility and if the state funding comes through, the 106th St Dam
City of Tulsa - Tulsa Zoo, $20 million
City of Tulsa - Parks, $15 million: Large regional recreation center at Lacy Park with additional funding for The Turkey Mountain urban wilderness area
City of Tulsa - Gilcrease Expressway extension, $10 million
City of Tulsa - Riverside Drive park-and-ride infrastructure, $10 million: A new parking garage at Riverside Drive and Interstate 44
City of Tulsa - Downtown, $10 million: No defined use at all
City of Tulsa - Neighborhoods, $10 million: No defined use yet
City of Tulsa - Brownfield cleanups, $5 million: Morton Health Center, 636 E. Pine St.; the Evans-Fintube site in the 100 block of North Lansing Avenue; a former gas station at 3519 N. Hartford Ave.; Apache Circle in the 500 block of East Apache Street; a shopping center in the 2100 block of North Cincinnati Avenue; and another former gas station at 1047 E. Apache St.
City of Tulsa - Oklahoma State University-Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - University of Oklahoma-University of Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - Trails, $5 million: Nothing specific
City of Tulsa - OSU Medical Center, $2.5 million

I am so-so on the zoo and the three medical buildings, but I like the other stuff.

The parks and brownfields money is desperately needed, the parking garage on Riverside is very smart, you gotta like the money for neighborhoods, downtown, and the trails and I really want to build the low water dams and the Gilcrease expressway.

But you guys are probably going to disagree with me.

[Townsend]

I usually blindly accept programs that throw money at development.

I'm not able to do that on this one.

[sgrizzle]

Full List:


Proposition 1:
Economic development
$20-25 million for upgrades to the IC Bus facility.
$12-16 million for Spirit.
$200 million to $210 million for American
Closing fund - $52.942 million
Bond costs and interest - $79.938 million


Proposition 2:
Quality-of-life improvements
Tulsa County - Juvenile justice center: $38 million
Tulsa County - Roads and other infrastructure: $25 million
Tulsa County - Improving Expo Square: $12 million
Tulsa County - Levee improvements: $10 million
Tulsa County - Parks and recreational facilities: $7 million
City of Tulsa - Arkansas River, $55 million: Rebuilding the Dam for Zink, White Water rafting facility and if the state funding comes through, the 106th St Dam
City of Tulsa - Tulsa Zoo, $20 million
City of Tulsa - Parks, $15 million: Large regional recreation center at Lacy Park with additional funding for The Turkey Mountain urban wilderness area
City of Tulsa - Gilcrease Expressway extension, $10 million
City of Tulsa - Riverside Drive park-and-ride infrastructure, $10 million: A new parking garage at Riverside Drive and Interstate 44
City of Tulsa - Downtown, $10 million: No defined use at all
City of Tulsa - Neighborhoods, $10 million: No defined use yet
City of Tulsa - Brownfield cleanups, $5 million: Morton Health Center, 636 E. Pine St.; the Evans-Fintube site in the 100 block of North Lansing Avenue; a former gas station at 3519 N. Hartford Ave.; Apache Circle in the 500 block of East Apache Street; a shopping center in the 2100 block of North Cincinnati Avenue; and another former gas station at 1047 E. Apache St.
City of Tulsa - Oklahoma State University-Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - University of Oklahoma-University of Tulsa medical school, $5 million
City of Tulsa - Trails, $5 million: Nothing specific
City of Tulsa - OSU Medical Center, $2.5 million
Bixby - $11.3 million - Undefined
Broken Arrow - $44.1 million - Undefined
Collinsville - $3 million - Undefined
Glenpool - $5.9 million - Undefined
Jenks - $9.2 million – Undefined (but probably the river)
Owasso - $14.38 million - Undefined
Sand Springs - $10.1 million - Undefined
Skiatook - $1.16 million - Undefined
Sperry - $643,894 – Undefined

No bonding cost for prop2, so it’s pay as you go which means none of these can even begin to happen until the tax starts which is still years away and some of these would not even start until after 2029. It will be 20 years until this vague list is done, 20 years!

Per the yestovision2.com site, the deal closing fun is $75M and the bond fund for the quality of life projects is $12M

[EricGarcia]

Broken Arrow has proposed a majority of the $44 million go toward road improvements.

5 Lane -
61st from Lynn Lane to 193rd
71st from 161st to Main
81st from Garnett to 145th
91st from Garnett to 145th
101st from Garnett to 145th

Extend Main Street from 71st to the Broken Arrow Expressway (new frontage road proposed on the south side of the expressway). 

They also propose buying 35 police cars and a fire truck. 

Roads and public safety...seem like some core city government projects.

[nathanm]

the parking garage on Riverside is very smart

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? (A long, long way before the horse)

I really want to build ... the Gilcrease expressway.

Why? I grant that North Tulsa in general has gotten the shaft over the years, but do we really need another sprawl-inducing road in a heretofore hardly used corridor? I want to see who owns the land nearby the planned route before agreeing to it. Besides, there have got to be some worthwhile quality of life projects in north and northwest Tulsa that money could be spent on.

[Conan71]

It's not purchasing equipment "for" someone else in the sense that they take ownership, or at least that's how it's worked in the past. If AA leaves, the equipment stays, unless we sell it to someone else.

Problem is though, if AA leaves and we can't attract another airline maintenance base or MRO shop, that equipment is now has the value of a plug nickel, assuming it's aircraft specific.

[nathanm]

Problem is though, if AA leaves and we can't attract another airline maintenance base or MRO shop, that equipment is now has the value of a plug nickel, assuming it's aircraft specific.

I suspect it could be sold to Lufthansa or whoever else is big in the outsourced maintenance thing. We probably wouldn't get what we paid, but I seriously doubt it would be zero.

[guido911]

KWGS is posting a "Smell the fart" picture of the Mayor.

I'd think with a new kid that would be your permanent expression T.

[Townsend]

I'd think with a new kid that would be your permanent expression T.

New kid means new kid smells.  There are none.  It's the solid food era that frightens me.

Problem is though, if AA leaves and we can't attract another airline maintenance base or MRO shop, that equipment is now has the value of a plug nickel, assuming it's aircraft specific.

Per the KWGS story, this may be why the Mayor is in Japan.  He's said to be meeting with Mitsubishi about their aviation work here in Tulsa.