Vision 2025...Part 2?

[DowntownDan]

Like Townsend said, nothing to worry about there.

Then I will likely vote no.  Put some more thought into it and show us concrete plans to improve quality of life in this town.  I could not care less what the suburbs want and I never understood why they are part of this package.  They can enact their own taxes and use them for their own development plans.

[Townsend]

Then I will likely vote no.  Put some more thought into it and show us concrete plans to improve quality of life in this town.  I could not care less what the suburbs want and I never understood why they are part of this package.  They can enact their own taxes and use them for their own development plans.

You might like the proposed V2029 then.

[patric]

My only fear about voting no is that if it fails I'm afraid the powers that be will refuse to go back to the drawing board

The downtown arena was voted down twice, before developers came up with a better plan, if I recall.

[DTowner]

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen any Tulsa World articles on any recent opinion polls for V2.  The silence is very telling.

[Hoss]

The downtown arena was voted down twice, before developers came up with a better plan, if I recall.

The arena was never really the sticking point with those two votes, it was the crazy stuff included (soccer stadium, natatorium) that was deemed unnecessary at the time.  Mayor Savage really screwed that one up.

[Weatherdemon]

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen any Tulsa World articles on any recent opinion polls for V2.  The silence is very telling.

There was a huge spread Sunday about all the city and county people that supported it as well as some new commercials on TV showing 'average people', parks, and businesses supporting it.

I still think there is not enough oversight and way, way too much money dependant on 'hopefully' getting matching federal funds. It appears to me that someone could end up with a couple hundred million to do what they want to with if every single bit of matching funds and proposed development doesn't occur.

I'm out on this one. Just like I was on the first couple renditions of V1.
Wasn't there a version of V1 that had like 6 or 7 small arena's being built across Tulsa?

[Townsend]

The Vision2 "pulse poll" on KTUL is nowhere to be found.  I'm guessing the results were not what someone was looking for or I'm tinfoil-hatting it.

I've messaged them asking for the final numbers.

[Townsend]

So with Fair Meadows stopping live horse races will there be a need for the track anymore?

Either way, how much of the Vision2 county money is supposed to go toward this property?

Edit:

$12 million - Expo Square

Expo Square President and CEO Mark Andrus keeps a list of projects that need to be completed at the fairgrounds, so he knows exactly how the fairgrounds would use its $12 million in Vision2 funding.

The list, for now, includes 10 projects, beginning with $500,000 in fencing along 15th Street to contain loose animals.

The other projects are a storage facility ($1.5 million); a covered arena for equestrian exercise and equipment and dirt storage ($1.5 million); a security camera system ($2 million); expansion, upgrade and maintenance of barns ($4 million); redesign and rehabilitation of QuikTrip Center entrance parking area ($1 million); a wireless point-of-sale system ($350,000); Central Park Hall interior upgrades ($300,000); new Central Park Hall and Ford Truck Arena seating ($750,000); and construction of lobbies at the east, west and north sides of the QuikTrip Center ($1.5 million).

So nothing for Fair Meadows.

[Hoss]

Weekend downtown trolley service to begin tonight (free even!):

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/old-urban-trolley-links-tulsas-entertainment-districts

[Townsend]

What Tulsans Need to Know About Vision2 Before the Big Vote

Per State Impact:

http://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/tag/vision2/

[nathanm]

The MAPS programs have been credited as providing the framework for a lot of the growth in OKC, which boasts the lowest unemployment of any major city in the United States.

Please, keep up the prognosticating. Let's pretend the low unemployment rate in OKC has nothing to do with the fact that they have tens of thousands of federal jobs propping them up.

The fact that the bulk of the Proposition 1 money would go to modenizing facilities occupied by bankrupt American Airlines has angered many, including prominent Tulsa blogger and political activist Michael Bates, who writes:

    We're being asked to borrow $214 million now in hopes of keeping a company that is bankrupt, that may not emerge from bankruptcy, that has already cut over 1,000 positions in Tulsa and is likely to cut more, that may go out out of business before we begin generating the tax revenue to pay back the loans.

Yo, Bates, you can check out their financials every month. Which, oddly, are better than any of their peers. The chance of AA just up and going out of business in the next couple of years is about zero. Last I looked they had around $5 billion in cash on hand. They took no DIP financing as part of their bankruptcy because they were smart enough to declare before the situation became dire. If you want to be against this, great, I'm with you. You don't have to make smile up to justify your position. It's fine to just say you don't want to give them a handout.

I would, however, like it if you wouldn't be against fixing the building, parking, and ramp areas. We are responsible for that, being the landlord. It's one thing to say no to buying them equipment. It's another thing entirely to demonstrate that we can't be trusted to keep our facilities in good repair. I wouldn't blame them in the least for refusing to invest here if we won't.

[shadows]

“Quality of life” seems to this poster is extending the present taxes derived for the aged and working poor to benefit the money people which seems to be our way of governing.  We continue to even arrange to tax our unborn much less the progressive taxation of those that are not even old enough to vote.

We are the world’s greatest debtor as we change from a free nation to one we consider “the powers to be” which determine what is good our future generations. 

The Mayan could have foreseen our future as to the exportation of our times.           

[Townsend]

"Quality of life" seems to this poster is extending the present taxes derived for the aged and working poor to benefit the money people which seems to be our way of governing.  We continue to even arrange to tax our unborn much less the progressive taxation of those that are not even old enough to vote.

We are the world's greatest debtor as we change from a free nation to one we consider "the powers to be" which determine what is good our future generations. 

The Mayan could have foreseen our future as to the exportation of our times.           

Thank you for your contribution.

[shadows]

The forgoing posters in the explanation of the distribution of the fair board leaves in doubt the case law on one subject, one vote.  If such propositions pass there will be room to challenge the conglobation of issues (without defining actual limited expenditures) whereas it becomes a mortgage on the citizen homestead in a very, very precarious economy.  Many that have money gains by such are recognized by their robbing those of the retirement age, who's days as productive citizens has passed, they continuously are being flaunted by the aged-ole promise " give us retirement resources and we will give you a better-quality-poverty".  Then they will sell your home in foreclosure by those who have promised you a better-quality-of-life.

There is a better way than robbing the poor to give their resources to promoters.  Robinhood or Doohinbor??           

[dioscorides]

I couldn't find this posted anywhere (from yesterday's TulsaWorld):

Vision2 has mixed support in Oklahoma Poll

By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Published: 11/4/2012  1:51 AM
Last Modified: 11/4/2012  7:23 AM

Vision2's quality-of-life Proposition 2 appears to be headed to victory in Tuesday's election, while the fate of Proposition 1 with its airport industrial complex upgrades and deal-closing fund is uncertain, a new Tulsa World poll shows.

An Oklahoma Poll of 440 likely voters, conducted Oct. 25 to Nov. 1, indicates Proposition 2 will pass with 58 percent support, compared with 31 percent against and 11 percent undecided.

Proposition 1 has 45 percent support, with 38 percent against and 17 percent undecided. The margin of error is plus or minus 4.67 percentage points.

SoonerPoll.com's Bill Shapard said it's almost impossible to determine how undecided voters will break on issue propositions rather than living-and-breathing candidates.

Read the rest here: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20121104_11_A1_Vision630674