TULSA, ranked top 10% of US cities!

[TheArtist]

  For high rates of CRIME!  


    http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/CityCrime2009_Rank_Rev.pdf

 You know its been rather irksome to see more and more people associating Tulsa with high crime rates.  I see it being asked about more often on different forums and such (found this posted on another forum actually).  People who are having to move to Tulsa because of a job express worry about Tulsa and its high crime rates.  More and more people who are visiting for some reason or another, also express concern for their well being.  (didnt know much about Tulsa so looked it up and was shocked at how bad the crime was there)

 And its starting to ring a bit hollow to answer... "Well its mostly in certain parts of town, just stay out of those and you will be all right,,, btw we have some beautiful architecture and great suburbs and a fantastic cost of living."  You can say that about Detroit too, but I wouldnt want the reputation they have as a city.  Speaking of other similarities to Detroit... seen some new statistics that show Tulsa is still losing population and will continue to do so.  Not good. 


  Why are our crime rates so high?
  What can be done about it?

[Conan71]

I heard most fatal car accidents occur within five miles of one's house, so I moved.

Seriously-

William, I don't know the answer.  Homicides are up this year, many of those seem to be drug related.  Community-based policing doesn't seem to have helped.  Political promises to get tough on crime obviously have been meaningless since we are cutting back on public safety budgets.

I think we need to re-define what makes a city liveable.

Is it arts and events?  Great school systems and universities/tech schools? Developing the river?

Is it sacrificing aesthetics for safety instead?

Those are hard questions we need to ask ourselves.  I believe the DA's job is under-paid and under-staffed and that's why we get what we deserve out of the TCDA's office which seems to be one disappointment after another and many un-filed cases due to a lack of manpower at the police and prosecution levels.  Even still, I don't think you can possibly man up enough to preemptively strike out all violent crime.

We apparently need more patrol officers on the street and more investigators, and more prison space to warehouse repeat offenders.

That's one way to look at it, the other is the erosion of the family and moral values. When there is such a disrespect for life and other's property, the best policing simply can't do anything but be reactive.

[FOTD]

 For high rates of CRIME!  


    http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/2009/CityCrime2009_Rank_Rev.pdf

 You know its been rather irksome to see more and more people associating Tulsa with high crime rates.  I see it being asked about more often on different forums and such (found this posted on another forum actually).  People who are having to move to Tulsa because of a job express worry about Tulsa and its high crime rates.  More and more people who are visiting for some reason or another, also express concern for their well being.  (didnt know much about Tulsa so looked it up and was shocked at how bad the crime was there)

 And its starting to ring a bit hollow to answer... "Well its mostly in certain parts of town, just stay out of those and you will be all right,,, btw we have some beautiful architecture and great suburbs and a fantastic cost of living."  You can say that about Detroit too, but I wouldnt want the reputation they have as a city.  Speaking of other similarities to Detroit... seen some new statistics that show Tulsa is still losing population and will continue to do so.  Not good. 


  Why are our crime rates so high?
  What can be done about it?

Better education (family planning and early childhood), more neighborhood police presence, and stronger programs to keep kids off the streets (which includes birth control!).

Arty, the devil thought for a minute you were quoting another Forbes lie....

[swake]

How about a new attitude to actually investigate and prosecute crimes in TPD and the DAs office.

Getting a new DA would be a great first step.

[PepePeru]

You can't simply lock away the crime, drug problem.
It's certainly a viscous cycle we've found ourselves mired in.

Sure, there's been a number of homicides in this city, but how many of them remain unsolved?

I'm thinking not that many.  Very few are random acts of violence.  It would seem we've got plenty of detectives and cops.  Its a much deeper problem than that.  Building more prisons won't fix it, hiring more cops won't fix it.  Those are just knee-jerk reactions that are the easiest way out and does not address the root of the problems.

It starts with high quality public education programs.  You reap what you sow.  Some in this State have made it their mission to strangle public education and look where that's gotten us.  

I hope you enjoy this harvest of uneducated goons that would rather use methamphetamine, would rather rob and possibly kill you to get a TV.

[Conan71]

You can't simply lock away the crime, drug problem.
It's certainly a viscous cycle we've found ourselves mired in.

Sure, there's been a number of homicides in this city, but how many of them remain unsolved?

I'm thinking not that many.  Very few are random acts of violence.  It would seem we've got plenty of detectives and cops.  Its a much deeper problem than that.  Building more prisons won't fix it, hiring more cops won't fix it.  Those are just knee-jerk reactions that are the easiest way out and does not address the root of the problems.

It starts with high quality public education programs.  You reap what you sow.  Some in this State have made it their mission to strangle public education and look where that's gotten us.  

I hope you enjoy this harvest of uneducated goons that would rather use methamphetamine, would rather rob and possibly kill you to get a TV.

With rare exceptions, high-quality educational programs have zero value without parental participation and positive role models at home.  My opinion is real crime prevention starts in our own homes with our own kids.  I'm proud to say two very dedicated but not over-indulging parents have nurtured two amazing young women who will always be contributors to society.  It's got far more to do with the love we've given them.  And yes my kids are from a so-called "broken home".  We always put their needs ahead of our own egos.  I see that in all my closest friends and my friend's kids as well.

It's a proven formula which works.

[SXSW]

I'd be interested in seeing crime statistics for similar-sized cities as Tulsa to see if we really have that much more crime or is it just perception?  We all know the majority of homicides in Tulsa are drug and gang-related and located in north or east Tulsa, usually in the same 'bad' neighborhoods near public housing and low income homes/apartments.  Do other similar-sized cities have the same troubled areas and gang/drug problems?  I would think so.

[FOTD]

With rare exceptions, high-quality educational programs have zero value without parental participation and positive role models at home.  My opinion is real crime prevention starts in our own homes with our own kids.  I'm proud to say two very dedicated but not over-indulging parents have nurtured two amazing young women who will always be contributors to society.  It's got far more to do with the love we've given them.  And yes my kids are from a so-called "broken home".  We always put their needs ahead of our own egos.  I see that in all my closest friends and my friend's kids as well.

It's a proven formula which works.

Let me guess, private schools?

[TheArtist]

I'd be interested in seeing crime statistics for similar-sized cities as Tulsa to see if we really have that much more crime or is it just perception?  We all know the majority of homicides in Tulsa are drug and gang-related and located in north or east Tulsa, usually in the same 'bad' neighborhoods near public housing and low income homes/apartments.  Do other similar-sized cities have the same troubled areas and gang/drug problems?  I would think so.

I have looked at plenty of stats.  Its not just perception. We really do have a lot more crime than most similarly sized cities, and larger.

[TheArtist]

With rare exceptions, high-quality educational programs have zero value without parental participation and positive role models at home.  My opinion is real crime prevention starts in our own homes with our own kids.  I'm proud to say two very dedicated but not over-indulging parents have nurtured two amazing young women who will always be contributors to society.  It's got far more to do with the love we've given them.  And yes my kids are from a so-called "broken home".  We always put their needs ahead of our own egos.  I see that in all my closest friends and my friend's kids as well.

It's a proven formula which works.

Thats great,,, but how do you force bad people to be good parents?  Some of these criminals are parents. You cant MAKE adults DO anything.  But there are proven programs that work remarkably well with kids.  The only time you can really have some control, and get people to do what you want them to, is when they are a kid in school. Once they are adults/parents, your far more limited on what you can do to change things.  Ask nicely perhaps?   "Hey you!  Shape up and be a good nurturing parent so we can have lower crime rates!  Parent hits self on side of head,,, "Well my goodness,,, why didnt I think of that before? Why of course from now on I will be a wonderful parent!  I just don't know why it didnt occur to me before now?"

[TheArtist]

You can't simply lock away the crime, drug problem.
It's certainly a viscous cycle we've found ourselves mired in.

Sure, there's been a number of homicides in this city, but how many of them remain unsolved?

I'm thinking not that many.  Very few are random acts of violence.  It would seem we've got plenty of detectives and cops.  Its a much deeper problem than that.  Building more prisons won't fix it, hiring more cops won't fix it.  Those are just knee-jerk reactions that are the easiest way out and does not address the root of the problems.

It starts with high quality public education programs.  You reap what you sow.  Some in this State have made it their mission to strangle public education and look where that's gotten us.  

I hope you enjoy this harvest of uneducated goons that would rather use methamphetamine, would rather rob and possibly kill you to get a TV.

 Indeed, we "put away" "get off the streets" and lock up more than most any other state. We also have one of the highest rates of "homicides/crimes solved".  Most police departments in the country look with envy upon our "homicides solved" stats. Was looking at some other stats and our number of police is quite similar to the number of police per population as OKC.  Yet their crime stats are also better than ours.

[Conan71]

Let me guess, private schools?

No, we had them in Undercroft until the older one was finished with 4th grade and the younger one was in first, then they went to Jenks.  The older one is at OU now.  So primarily it's been mostly public schools.

[Conan71]

Thats great,,, but how do you force bad people to be good parents?  Some of these criminals are parents. You cant MAKE adults DO anything.  But there are proven programs that work remarkably well with kids.  The only time you can really have some control, and get people to do what you want them to, is when they are a kid in school. Once they are adults/parents, your far more limited on what you can do to change things.  Ask nicely perhaps?   "Hey you!  Shape up and be a good nurturing parent so we can have lower crime rates!  Parent hits self on side of head,,, "Well my goodness,,, why didnt I think of that before? Why of course from now on I will be a wonderful parent!  I just don't know why it didnt occur to me before now?"

IMO, it's a moral issue, really and you cannot force morals on anyone.

Just a general degredation of man becoming omnipotent instead of God or a higher power.  I call it bending God's will to fit man's will.  I'm not currently a church-goer and consider myself spiritual, not religious and my beliefs come from a wide variety of Christian faiths and separate world religions.  Fortunately, I had great role models myself and faith and spirituality has been a part of my upbringing and adult life.

It's a change in attitude which has to come from within ones self and within one's family.  I can't deny the value of a great educational system, but thinking we can out-spend apathy in the family toward education is a folly.

[TheArtist]

IMO, it's a moral issue, really and you cannot force morals on anyone.

Just a general degredation of man becoming omnipotent instead of God or a higher power.  I call it bending God's will to fit man's will.  I'm not currently a church-goer and consider myself spiritual, not religious and my beliefs come from a wide variety of Christian faiths and separate world religions.  Fortunately, I had great role models myself and faith and spirituality has been a part of my upbringing and adult life.

It's a change in attitude which has to come from within ones self and within one's family.  I can't deny the value of a great educational system, but thinking we can out-spend apathy in the family toward education is a folly.

The question would be then,,, Why is there such a high degree of "degredation of man" and "apathy in the family" in Tulsa compared to so many other places?  


Homicides as of Nov

Tulsa,  62      pop   385,000 
Seattle, 14     pop   595,000
Austin,  21     pop   745,000
Portland, 16    pop   575,000
Omaha, 25     pop   435,000
Minneapolis, 19,      375,000   

And most Canadian cities and a lot of European ones with populations in the millions barely break double digits.

[FOTD]

IMO, it's a moral issue, really and you cannot force morals on anyone.

Just a general degredation of man becoming omnipotent instead of God or a higher power.  I call it bending God's will to fit man's will.  I'm not currently a church-goer and consider myself spiritual, not religious and my beliefs come from a wide variety of Christian faiths and separate world religions.  Fortunately, I had great role models myself and faith and spirituality has been a part of my upbringing and adult life.

It's a change in attitude which has to come from within ones self and within one's family.  I can't deny the value of a great educational system, but thinking we can out-spend apathy in the family toward education is a folly.

Well, it is a moral issue. But today is quite different than the mores you grew up in (Tiger Woods hit a tree and a bunch of women fell out...).You may not be able to force morals on some one....but you can cultivate a sense of community from which a sense of belonging comes. Instead, what we see is a clearly divided scene of anarchy and disenfranchisement. Government can help alleviate this predicament over time through lifting up the under class.

Face it .... this is a battle between love and hate, good and evil, and give and take.