Police Union calls Mayor an extortionist

[gooberak]

O that we could impeach this loser. He's no better than his predecessor. Unreal.

[rwarn17588]

O that we could impeach this loser. He's no better than his predecessor. Unreal.

So sez another newbie who'll likely disappear from this forum in less than a week.

So what would you do in this situation?

[FOTD]

So sez another newbie who'll likely disappear from this forum in less than a week.

So what would you do in this situation?

Clean up the Public Works department.....

[patric]

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=14851.msg152362#msg152362

Here's something unique, a police union putting up billboards telling the taxpayers they cant guarantee their safety if the city lays off police:

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100530/A_NEWS/5300315
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=82513&catid=2

[DolfanBob]

FOTD. Guest ?

[guido911]

Didn't think this deserved its own thread, but this pi$$es me off.

An Oklahoma City police lieutenant accused of cheating the city by failing to work his entire shifts has collected more than $75,000 in the past 11 months while on administrative leave during the investigation.
Police said Friday that Lt. Christopher Gayhart still is collecting a city paycheck even after he was charged Thursday with three felony counts and 10 misdemeanor counts of obtaining money under false pretenses.

Gayhart was booked into the Oklahoma County jail Friday after turning himself in.

His attorney, Irven Box, said Thursday he and his client still were looking into the allegations.

City officials said they have no choice but to keep paying the salaries of employees accused of wrongdoing, sometimes for a year or more, because of complicated disciplinary procedures established as part of negotiations with employee unions.

"It is frustrating," Mayor Mick Cornett said. "I wish we had other options. It's in some ways reflective of the culture of organized labor agreements."

http://newsok.com/an-accused-oklahoma-city-police-officer-lt.-christopher-gayhart-has-collected-75000-during-investigation/article/3584128#ixzz1RdtpTdUo

[AquaMan]

Isn't he presumed innocent? He's just been charged not convicted.

I have no problem with paying a guy while his case is working through the system. Then if he's found guilty he has to pay it back. Or, hold it in trust till the case is decided.  I'm pretty sure if you did it the other way around (put him on suspension and withhold his pay) and he is found not guilty he'd likely sue for back pay and damages.

[guido911]

Isn't he presumed innocent? He's just been charged not convicted.

I have no problem with paying a guy while his case is working through the system. Then if he's found guilty he has to pay it back. Or, hold it in trust till the case is decided.  I'm pretty sure if you did it the other way around (put him on suspension and withhold his pay) and he is found not guilty he'd likely sue for back pay and damages.

All people are innocent until proven guilty. Except, if I get charged (assuming I worked at a business), I get fired. I don't get an 11 month paid vacation. And pay it back? How's he gonna do that if he's in jail?

[AquaMan]

All people are innocent until proven guilty. Except, if I get charged (assuming I worked at a business), I get fired. I don't get an 11 month paid vacation. And pay it back? How's he gonna do that if he's in jail?

This isn't just any business, its a guy with a contract that protects him from political or vindictive harassment, but if it was and I was found not guilty I would feel obligated to punish them for their actions. I think you would too and you wouldn't sign an employment contract that didn't protect yourself against such arbitrary action. Why does it make you mad he is doing the same thing?

Vacation? Do you defend yourself in lawsuits on your vacation while your neighbors and friends start to shun you? Some vacation.

The solution would be to put a portion of the salary in trust while leaving the defendant enough money to pay his lawyers and not have to apply for welfare or unemployment. In exchange his contract could prevent him from countersuing in case the city lost.

[guido911]

This isn't just any business, its a guy with a contract that protects him from political or vindictive harassment, but if it was and I was found not guilty I would feel obligated to punish them for their actions. I think you would too and you wouldn't sign an employment contract that didn't protect yourself against such arbitrary action. Why does it make you mad he is doing the same thing?

Vacation? Do you defend yourself in lawsuits on your vacation while your neighbors and friends start to shun you? Some vacation.

The solution would be to put a portion of the salary in trust while leaving the defendant enough money to pay his lawyers and not have to apply for welfare or unemployment. In exchange his contract could prevent him from countersuing in case the city lost.

Where in the story is it mentioned that this POS was a victim of anything other than failing to do his damned job. Don't fill in facts that are not remotely there with your own. And "employment contracts"? The only one I ever signed is when I enlisted. Not everyone is in a damned union. And strange as this may be, a lot of us are employed at will and get fired if we do what are employer is paying us to do. Do those folks get 11 months off with pay while they protest? Nope. They get into an unemployment line. This cop? He gets to live it up on our tax dollars.

This criminal case by the way is irrelevant in my opinion. If he did what is believed, it should be internally investigated and then he should be fired. Period. Whether or not he gets convicted or acquitted is something altogether different.

And please do not play the "poor victim" or "he's being ostracized" card. Unless you know for certain he's innocent or being railroaded, or know anything more than what is stated in my article, you are doing nothing more that carrying union water. Funny, I think I know where your forum name(s) come from.

[AquaMan]

You are impossible to converse with.

I'm sorry you don't have access to a union that will protect you.

But I'm really sorry I responded to your bait. I'll have to work on that.

[guido911]

You are impossible to converse with.

I'm sorry you don't have access to a union that will protect you.

But I'm really sorry I responded to your bait. I'll have to work on that.

I didn't think letting people know that we have a law enforcement officer accused of not working, being charged criminally, and getting paid to loaf around was bait. As for unions, got no use for them after what went on in Wisconsin. And I was raised in a pro-union family.

[AquaMan]

I didn't think letting people know that we have a law enforcement officer accused of not working, being charged criminally, and getting paid to loaf around was bait. As for unions, got no use for them after what went on in Wisconsin. And I was raised in a pro-union family.

Family lessons are important. You missed some of those lessons I guess. My family in Wisconsin is appalled and are determined to change the legislative landscape there.

The man is innocent. Bringing charges against your enemies ain't so hard. Good weapon if you know the system and its players.
But you know that, you're simply letting your politics overwhelm you.

[guido911]

Family lessons are important. You missed some of those lessons I guess. My family in Wisconsin is appalled and are determined to change the legislative landscape there.

The man is innocent. Bringing charges against your enemies ain't so hard. Good weapon if you know the system and its players.
But you know that, you're simply letting your politics overwhelm you.

Is he innocent at present criminally? Yes. I am not disputing that. This whole thing about his innocence until proven guilty thing is apples and oranges as to his job, If he did what he did, and there are facts to support it, he should be terminated. How many other sectors of employment tie your continued employment to whether your misconduct is beyond a reasonable doubt? Change the offense for a second. Instead of not doing his job, let's say a male officer was accused by two women of sexual harassment--a reprehensible act that is unfortunately not criminal--with voice records of the acts? What if an officer is coming to work consistently late or intoxicated? Do they get 11 months of paid time off while an investigation takes place too?

It's not about my politics, which I am sure has nothing to do with your position. It's about my disdain for this sort of crap that is happening at the expense of the Oklahoma taxpayer.

I am happy to know your family is determined to fix what happened earlier this year. 

The fake doctor notes?

The trashing of public property?

Dragging school children with you to protest?

How is your family going about getting these legislatively fixed because I agree with them it was appalling?

[AquaMan]

Is he innocent at present criminally? Yes. I am not disputing that. This whole thing about his innocence until proven guilty thing is apples and oranges as to his job, If he did what he did, and there are facts to support it, he should be terminated. How many other sectors of employment tie your continued employment to whether your misconduct is beyond a reasonable doubt? Change the offense for a second. Instead of not doing his job, let's say a male officer was accused by two women of sexual harassment--a reprehensible act that is unfortunately not criminal--with voice records of the acts? What if an officer is coming to work consistently late or intoxicated? Do they get 11 months of paid time off while an investigation takes place too?

It's not about my politics, which I am sure has nothing to do with your position. It's about my disdain for this sort of crap that is happening at the expense of the Oklahoma taxpayer.

I am happy to know your family is determined to fix what happened earlier this year. 

The fake doctor notes?

The trashing of public property?

Dragging school children with you to protest?

How is your family going about getting these legislatively fixed because I agree with them it was appalling?

Apples and oranges? "If" he did what he did? And the facts support it? What if? What if?

Are you listening to yourself? You sound like a local version of Nancy (totmom) Grace!

The story doesn't say whether he was terminated. It says charges were filed. Charges are often used to bully, harass or quiet an employee you want gone or silenced. Unfortunately many in power use the law as a sword rather than a shield. Sometimes its used like a hammer. That is why vulnerable positions in police, academia and government have contracts that give them protections against that crap. If this is an abuse of that protection then it seems like to me this is a contract discussion. Nick Cornett should address these issues in his next contract negotiation. Meanwhile he's innocent until charges are proved and should continue his employment.

Or I presume you think we should just pull the plug on any collective bargaining rights like your politics and hatred of unions demands? I understand that view. Quite popular in these parts and growing elsewhere too. Doesn't mean its a good thing.

Nonetheless, I don't see how bringing in unrelated employment examples or my family's views on legislators who don't (by polls) represent their interests is germane. Its doubtful they'll be re-elected.

But really, what do you expect those who disagree with you to do? Suddenly see the light of your more powerful arguments and move drastically rightward leaving behind decades of personal experience and education? Junk generations of labor relations progress because those people must have been weak who caved into the dastardly union evildoers? Its like you think you just realized that other people aren't like you and you just can't have that! Is it the will to win....at everything? Maybe that is the genes of all lawyers and if so you have no responsibility. Not guilty by reason of defect?